Please put a DPS check in a 4-man

[Ehayte]

T8 is such a great motivational tool for DPS. I have been playing MNK on and off (between MNK and PLD) in Coil since 2.0, and never have I been challenged to actually pump DPS like I have in T8. With a bard moving around a ton, and using the 2-tank strat, I have to put out a lot of dps to have my group be on track to make the checks.

Not to say I was a bad MNK before T8, but nor did I ever want to spend my free time tracking down someone with a parser and having them sit around while I beat on a striking dummy with different variations of my rotation. Nor was I overly concerned with proper ToD clipping, CD management (was always a little slow before, sue me), etc.

Being forced to focus on these things has made me better in general because my "feel" for the class has improved drastically, so that my subconscious DPS brain is a lot more alert of when my CDs are up, when I need to clip a dot, etc while I'm dealing with mechanics or learning new things, etc.I'd love to see something in a 4-man dungeon that incorporates making sure someone knows how to squeeze a lot of dps out of their class, my initial idea for a fun, gimmicky, memorable fight would be something like going into a defunct Garlean laboratory and the boss fight would be:

Defunct Sentry Colossus
- Main mechanic would be that the actual boss doesn't do any auto-attacks or special attacks, he just has one: "Deathblow." Deathblow would do 12,000 damage to its target every 10 seconds, and adds a bleeding DoT that will do 2,000 dmg over the next 5 seconds. The 12,000 is decreased by the amount of damage done to a "Leaky Battery" sitting on a ledge directly above the boss. The boss takes damage each time it taps the Leaky Battery for Deathblow - for a total of 18 Deathblows over 3 minutes.

The purpose is that you have to have your DPS each slamming out damage with no other responsibilities for 3 minutes in order for the tank to survive the deathblows + the DoT. If your DPS can each do 250 (not difficult in even i90) then your tank only takes 6,000 unmitigated. If one DPS is only doing 180 and the other is doing 210, the tank is going to take 8,100 damage immediately + 2000 over the next 5 seconds. Might be OK for 1 or 2 Deathblows, but your healer will run out of mana and CDs healing hits that big eventually. Can have some ground AEs that add infirmary to the tank or a healing range/potency debuff to the healer to keep it interesting for them.

This way, DPS can learn to not be HORRIBLE at putting out DPS. No one is really ever forced to learn how to put out max DPS unless you are a raider that can handle everything. I'd love for the random PUGs I run T6 with on my alt BLM to actually know how to do DPS so that they can still put out decent numbers when they have learned the mechanics.

If you read that whole thing, you are a trooper because most of it devolved into me explaining an idea for a boss fight I had, but TL;DR = put a smei-tight DPS check in a rewarding 4-man dungeon so people will learn to DPS.

EDIT - Here is a post from later in the thread where I take back some of the implementation I suggested

I guess a 4-man wouldn't be ideal for what my intention was. I was just thinking most people do 4-mans to get sol/myth (not any more with hunts lol). I'm thinking maybe as part of the quests to unlock each set of coil, you will need to prove your abilities to get in. Meaning you have to DPS down a boulder in the way of the entrance within 3 minutes or it renews its strength and you have to try again. Or you have to keep something healed for 3 minutes while moving between a bunch of different platforms that are lighting up. Or you have to manage enmity on 2 different targets for 3 minutes to keep some monsters distracted. Just make them solo trials so people can do them at their leisure.


Adding this because I think its relevant:
- RE: Maybe I shouldn't be PUGing coil on my alt if I don't want to deal with crappy players: Do you mean to say that no one should ever PUG coil? Follow up question: Why? Do you honestly think everyone in an MMO can keep to a weekly schedule of raiding with 8 people every single week? The sheer odds of 8 people keeping on the same raiding schedule for 3 weeks is staggering (assuming). People that are PUGing Coil obviously want to do coil, all I am saying is that they should be taught that their rotations and the way they DPS MATTERS in coil. In 4-man dungeons, if you want to bootshine 35x in a row, I don't really care as long as we clear. In coil, you better know at least how to play your job well or you are wasting everyone's time, in my opinion.

I am happy to teach people mechanics they haven't seen, but if I can see an i108 MNK is 8th on the enimty list and my i92 BLM is 4th - we have a serious, serious, serious problem.

[Kiara1]

That's not gonna work. I had a monk in Tam-Tara HM who seemed to just use whatever he wanted to use. He managed to get 2 stacks in greased lightning...once...
Imagine getting one of those in a dungeon with a dps check.

It could be PF friendly but not DF

[Rin_Azel]

We had one of those, its called the Demon Wall... and it was nerfed for a reason.

[Ehayte]

That's not gonna work. I had a monk in Tam-Tara HM who seemed to just use whatever he wanted to use. He managed to get 2 stacks in greased lightning...once...
Imagine getting one of those in a dungeon with a dps check.

It could be PF friendly but not DF

I mean, that's kind of the point. I know there is a huge flaw in the logic that no one is going to want to do the dungeon since there is a chance that you get a mega-derp DPS, but this is meant to put accountability on the DPS to force them to learn (and in some cases, realize they aren't playing well). You could even use 2 leaky batteries and alternative which one he taps to put individual accountability there.

We had one of those, its called the Demon Wall... and it was nerfed for a reason.

Yurp, but there was exploding floors and gnats and push-backs involved. I'm talking about something where people can solely focus on doing DPS.

[Kiara1]

I mean, that's kind of the point. I know there is a huge flaw in the logic that no one is going to want to do the dungeon since there is a chance that you get a mega-derp DPS, but this is meant to put accountability on the DPS to force them to learn (and in some cases, realize they aren't playing well). You could even use 2 leaky batteries and alternative which one he taps to put individual accountability there.

The could add it like a guildhest, or maybe at some point during the main quest so ppl learn it early. Ppl should know most of their class' potential when they hit 50 imo.
Then ofcourse you can always improve. But I mean this guy didn't seem to know what his attack did and he didn't speak english. And he had some ilvl 100 gear. I don't believe he would learn from a dps check unless someone who spoke his language would tell him everything about all of his attack moves

Edit: I like the idea it's just. SE nerfs everything in this game and that has made a lot of ppl really bad. So it doesn't fit this game

[ValkyrieL]

I was in stone vigil hM, and monk only use bootshine and fracture 3x within 15 sec, this happened all the way to first boss and 1 st trash, Dragon got summoned cuz dps was so terrible, MNK. NEVER got grease lightning. I talked to him right before dropping. And have this on video too. I may upload one day and name it "How to play a monk".

[Edli]

That's not gonna work. I had a monk in Tam-Tara HM who seemed to just use whatever he wanted to use. He managed to get 2 stacks in greased lightning...once...
Imagine getting one of those in a dungeon with a dps check.

If there is no need to learn he will not learn. I bet you managed to clear tam-tara just fine so why should he bother to learn his class? He won anyway.

[Ehayte]

If there is no need to learn he will not learn. I bet you managed to clear tam-tara just fine so why should he bother to learn his class? He won anyway.

^^ Boom.

/10char

[Charisma]

If there is no need to learn he will not learn. I bet you managed to clear tam-tara just fine so why should he bother to learn his class? He won anyway.

Just untill he meets someone whos as bad as him in playing his dps class.
Mostly players like this win, because they are getting carried.

[Airikay]

Yurp, but there was exploding floors and gnats and push-backs involved. I'm talking about something where people can solely focus on doing DPS.

So..you just want a training dummy? T8 is incredibly boring and anything can do it now since hunts give sands. Use to be a bit more of a challenge when DPs had to be somewhat efficient and couldn't just overhear and throw the kitchen sink at it.