Repetitive grind parties should NOT be the main source of leveling

[Godryc]

Leves shouldn't be a main source either as far as I'm concerned but as things stand atm its that or grind parties so people are bound to choose one or the other if they continue to play.

[Kittkatt]

At least you can get a grind party I usually sit in Ul'dah all day everyday, shouting and putting recruitment up and never get parties or dungeon runs so I just stay the same level lol

[indira]

should be a OPTION

[zaviermhigo]

How are we supposed to level without repeatedly killing mobs in some form?
-do quest kill x mobs at y location
-guildleves kill mobs while running around like a retard
-grinding kill mobs in set location (in future when chains are added, i bet these complainers would quit complaining when they're faces melt off with high chain sp, but then again they prob won't make it into that party cause they're so against grinding mobs over and over again)

Seriously every mmo in the world has some mechanic that is boring and repetitive, if you don't like it make your own mmo.

[kukurumei]

Seriously every mmo in the world has some mechanic that is boring and repetitive, if you don't like it make your own mmo.

Actually there are private servers for people that complain in that way...very small, and highly pvp ghost towns.

their method of leveling /addexp 9999999

You're either running the same repeatable quest, the same repeatable dungeon, or the same repeatable monster...not much difference. Maybe if you paid a little more, you can have some text to go with that repetition.

[Ventus]

How are we supposed to level without repeatedly killing mobs in some form?
-do quest kill x mobs at y location
-guildleves kill mobs while running around like a retard
-grinding kill mobs in set location (in future when chains are added, i bet these complainers would quit complaining when they're faces melt off with high chain sp, but then again they prob won't make it into that party cause they're so against grinding mobs over and over again)

Seriously every mmo in the world has some mechanic that is boring and repetitive, if you don't like it make your own mmo.

I think it's more about making this mandatory grind in every RPG, which I do acknowledge exists, seemless to the point where players are having enough fun to not even notice they are grinding mountains of xp.

That's the topic being discussed: how can we make a better mode of leveling besides beating our brains out on common monsters in the world for hours with no content or substance surrounding it?

As someone else pointed out, grinding mobs allows for limited exploration as many zones go untouched because they are deemed "too difficult to camp in" so we need to find a way to immerse ourselves in this world of Eorzea without this limit.

I find it confusing how people say grinding has you exploring the world when you really set up a CAMP in one spot and stay there >.<. Doesn't sound like nearly as much exploring is going on as there could be.

[kukurumei]

I think it's more about making this mandatory grind in every RPG, which I do acknowledge exists, seemless to the point where players are having enough fun to not even notice they are grinding mountains of xp.

That's the topic being discussed: how can we make a better mode of leveling besides beating our brains out on common monsters in the world for hours with no content or substance surrounding it?

As someone else pointed out, grinding mobs allows for limited exploration as many zones go untouched because they are deemed "too difficult to camp in" so we need to find a way to immerse ourselves in this world of Eorzea without this limit.

I find it confusing how people say grinding has you exploring the world when you really set up a CAMP in one spot and stay there >.<. Doesn't sound like nearly as much exploring is going on as there could be.

Yes it's call paying more for more and better content. That's the model of F2P and DLCs. You can choose those type of business models...they'll be glad to hire a building full of writers and creators if you can sustain their profit margins.

MMO has to live within the rules of MMO.

[Kiara]

Hi Ventus and All,

It's a very good question & topic. I guess the big picture question is:

* What *do* you do in an MMO (specifically RPG) that would be a better way to increase / improve / get better / grow?

Even offline RPGs, the "classic grind" of killing monsters throughout the world to level up and get better has been around since the earliest of days.

I think with unlimited budget and unlimited manpower, a "dream scenario" for leveling up / progressing / getting better in an MMORPG for me would be:

• Going on interesting, engaging, challenging *Adventures* with Story & Lore, with friends / strangers in a party, and growing stronger from it.
  
  Specifically, imagine the level of quality from "Chains of Promathea" Story Missions: The amazing cinematography, interesting storyline, production values, and unlocking new lands, etc.
  
  Imagine if doing each Mission (with a challenging difficulty) rewarded Players with lots of XP / SP and you could gain Levels that way.

THAT would be my ideal way to "level" in an MMORPG.

But I think we all agree, the production costs would be astronomical. I don't think they can provide that level of quality, writing, storytelling, missions, new areas, challenging content *fast enough* and with enough of them, to satisfy the Hardcore MMO players (who'd get through content too fast), Average gamers or Casual gamers (only can put in a few hours per week).

So what else can an MMORPG do to "fill the void"? It's a tough question. Some people loved Conquest, Ein, Dynamis, Sky, BCNMs, etc., in FF XI. And that's a game that had years under its belt before it had a breadth of content for it later.

Is it through Questing (with good production values, cinematics, etc.)? Probably not feasible.

Could it be through an *interesting* Combat System (via Parties)? Possibly.

If this new Final Fantasy Job System with revamped Skillchains (or some Dynamic Combat Layer (like developing something from Chrono Trigger, etc.)) could be added, with ways to develop interesting methods to kill monsters, that in-and-of-itself could be a great, fun way to spend hours battling through various mobs around Eorzea (with friends). That would make "grinding" less tedious for sure.

But after a while even that would get repetitive.

I think the answer lies with balance of a variety of things to do.

If they add in a Chocobo Raising System (like Final Fantasy VII (Gold Saucer Chocobo Races! ), added in other interesting things to do, that's something else that keeps people interested.

I'd like there to be something else besides the Grind. I'd say 1.18 is a start in the right direction (with Dungeons that you can SP in, with some production values, Class System changes, and Grand Companies). I'm curious to see what else comes from 1.19 and 1.20.

[Allanon]

I am not all for the endless hours of grinding, but neither am I for the endless hours of leve party groups either. Look part of the reason for the "grind" is so that you can learn your job. You have the chance to play around with different methods of play. This way you don't have to learn your job at a crucial time like NM/instanced dungeons. Also lets be real here the vast majority of the players are really just a bunch of 50 noobs that got from 1-50 in less than a month by doing endless behest and leves without really learning their job effectively along the way. Proof of this would be according to the last Letter from the Producer only 280 people have gotten through the 45 dungeon. My guess is half of those people opted not to defeat Batraal. So I am not for the grind as it is a time sink, but the alternative is not that appealing either.

[Xianghua]

Its an RPG there will be a grind one way or another. you will not find an RPG anywhere where the best way to level is not going out and killing a horde of monsters. If you don't like it then RPGs are not the games for you. Its not limiting anything just making you work with others (whole point of a MMO) to level. the only thing limiting you from doing quest/exploring or whatever else you can think of is you. Don't matter how they do leveling someone will be unhappy about it. if you don't like it don't play simple as that.