Was Coil 2 and Ramuh extreme over tune?

[Triston]

snip

The time sinks werevery silly, but have you forgotten one of the largest issues with the attunement process? Requiring gold in dungeons/adventures resulted in an immediate striation of the community into "first-wave 50s" and "everyone else". Either you struggled in the first week with the other new 50s and worked hard to figure out the strats and got bronzes and silvers and eventually gold, (ostensibly the intended method) or you were part of the second or third wave of 50s and were locked out of content as people started dropping dungeon runs on the very first death.
I know I personally let my sub lapse after the free month, and it was not because of bugs.

[skaterger]

The time sinks werevery silly, but have you forgotten one of the largest issues with the attunement process? Requiring gold in dungeons/adventures resulted in an immediate striation of the community into "first-wave 50s" and "everyone else". Either you struggled in the first week with the other new 50s and worked hard to figure out the strats and got bronzes and silvers and eventually gold, (ostensibly the intended method) or you were part of the second or third wave of 50s and were locked out of content as people started dropping dungeon runs on the very first death.
I know I personally let my sub lapse after the free month, and it was not because of bugs.

Yet the only difficult thing was about making gold runs and people leaving after 1 death. That kinds of feels like punishing you for one single mistake even though you can be a skilled player. Many people don't have the patience for that not to mention the low skill level of pugs groups they were trying to complete it in. And the bugs, oh the bugs. I was on my way to silver in war of the wilds and the npc bugged out and we could not finish the instance.

However, the fights itself was great. And if you managed to reach GA it was a real challenge, way more than coil. The problem was that hardly anyone managed to get there. I guess my point is there is still an audience for hard games, just not make it tedious and frustrating to get there. Compared to other games like wildstar, ramuh and second coil are really not that difficult. Especially ramuh, since it is moving away from a scripted fight and relies more on communication, which would be a waste if it got nerfed.

[Fendred]

As I see it, we have two different groups of "hard-core" raiders. One is the close nit groups that migrated from game to game who are unaffected by the community because they don't mingle with them, and the other are players who expect to be able to form raids by actively participating in the community. It's the second group who are suffering problems.

The casual audience permeates every aspect of the game, and there is simply no way to honestly separate the good from the bad with traditional gate keeping encounters when so many raiders are inevitably going to be stuck with at least some raid members being casual.

My suggestion? They should make some kind of solo encounters with heavy hitting death mechanics and expert timing similar to the bosses that would be fought in raids to use as gatekeeper encounters instead of traditional eight man raids acting as gatekeepers.

Why do I think that will work? Back when Titan EX was still current, I wiped some fifty times with PUGs, and the one consistency between all groups was that some people simply couldn't dodge. The casual players couldn't complete the individual challenges presented in the fight. Coordination issues really grew out of that instead of the other way around. However, once you beat the thing, you had a badge of honor that could be checked by other raiders that acted as quality control for the harder content.

The only problem with the Titan EX test was that, besides being a pain to have to deal a ludicrous number of wipes, some good raiders ultimately get left behind because there is simply no way to get through with seven random people doomed to mess up. If the tests were for individual players, it would sift out those with no hope of raiding and leave a viable pool of players for people to feel confident building statics around or even just high end PUGs.

[Zarzak]

Was coil 2 and ramuh a bit over tune for average gamer?

They are raids. Not supposed to be tuned for the average gamer. And in the case of the FFXIV population CT is prolly a bit overtuned for the average skill level displayed.

[KyrsIsley]

Not sure how you can justify SCoB and Ramuh Ex as overtuned when pugs are downing it every week on my server. I've gotten more than 1 kill in T9 by pugging with 7 other strangers.

People like to say they are "casuals" but that doesn't mean you should be able to survive standing in fire just because you label yourself as casual. Sometimes you are just not as good as you think you are, and should really use that as a motivation to get better (Dunning–Kruger effect).

In a MMO, we all start out even. Some may have more time than the others, but how far you can get in game is completely dependent on your own, even for contents that require team work. People like to say "I can dodge X 90% of the time, I just need to find 7 others that can do the same." However, take Titan as an example, if all 7 people can dodge 90% of the time, that means there is only a 48% of chance that all 8 people are going to make it out of a given wave of plumes. In an average Titan fight, you get more than 10 waves of plumes, that's means you have less than 0.1% of chance that everyone making it out of that fight alive.

[Mishini_Dracoto]

Mm, T6 I cleared days into 2.2. T7 took me a couple weeks (Ironically, I cleared it with a PUG and not with my static) month or two later, cleared T8 with a PUG, left my static (yes that I made >.<) as they were still working on T7, couple weeks later my new static one-shot T6-T9. I've cleared all 4 turns of Second Coil.

I only ever joined 1 Party Finder group for Ramuh Ex, it wasn't until a couple weeks ago (I saw no point in trying, aside from getting the clear itself) it took us 3-4 tries I think to kill it. I don't know if/when my group will attempt the woodchipper that is Savage mode, but aside from that I've cleared all current content. I don't think it's over tuned, it's meant to be hard, and they still had to add Savage mode. it will be easier to beat once 3rd Coil comes out in 2.4

[Mishini_Dracoto]

Snip

Like fighting Maat from FFXI. So many people just could *not* beat him, and were blocked from FFXI endgame until they 'gotgud'