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  1. #11
    Player
    Krypkins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    16
    Character
    Krypikins Avelisa
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    As it works now, point for point, a main stat will ALWAYS be better than secondary stats. i.e. 30 str >>>>>>> 30 det. With monk for example, you would need roughly 90 det to equal 30 str.
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player
    Yonko's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    235
    Character
    Yonko Chao
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    This won't solve anything as others have pointed out. People put 30 points into their main stat because doing anything else is just silly (excluding rare occasions).

    With your system people would still just put the points into the same stats or be gimped. If you don't believe this then go ask 10 people with the same novus for the same job what stats they put on and baring gil issues you will get 9 people saying 1 thing and the 1 person who wants to be different.

    99% of People don't want to be gimped, they don't want to play around with different choices they just want to be able to beat the content. If that means they need to put 30 points into Stat X then they will all put 30 points into Stat X. Very few people actually do the math on how large of an effect it has. For instance losing the 30 MND as a SCH will drops you Physicks ~50hp and your adlo ~40hp. At the current ilvls that isn't a big deal. My SCH heals for over 1k without the 30 MND. Yet everyone will tell me that in order to heal end game with SCH (I use WHM 95% of the time if I'm healing) I need those 30 points in MND because that is what everyone else says.
    (0)
    Last edited by Yonko; 08-19-2014 at 04:53 AM. Reason: char limits on a forum are stupid.

  3. #13
    Player
    Jican's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    187
    Character
    Jican Marquees
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Botanist Lv 90
    I completely disagree. Aside from a few number that you need to pass the threshold to get a small percentage, there is really a lot of versitility if only you know how and what you wanted to do with the job. I'll use a tank as an example. You have the option to put more points into str, which increase your damage, which you get the most out of for your enimity generation. OR you could simply put more points into vit so you can take those hard hits. There is a min you need to pass for end game, past that, you can do what you want with your points. It's your game style, you do what suits you. If you don't believe me, play around with i90 pentamelded gear and see what you can get out of it. You'll be surprised. The reason people follow the crowd of putting points into main slots now is because this game is so new, it's hard to know exactly how the system computes a lot of stat allocation. It's "safer" to go mainstream, but as soon as you step outside that, you'll find a whole nother world out there. Good luck!
    (0)

  4. #14
    Player
    Nutz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    1,140
    Character
    Monkey Nutz
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 60
    It would allow for more customization, but we all know that secondary stats are pretty weak compared to main stats so it wouldn't matter very much what you did with the points. The biggest benefit would be in being able to exactly hit the accuracy cap without going over and dumping your other secondary stats in more suitable places more easily.
    (0)

  5. #15
    Player
    Zetsumei_Tsunarashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Shadowlord Server
    Posts
    1,601
    Character
    Zetsumei Tsunarashi
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Yonko View Post
    This won't solve anything as others have pointed out. People put 30 points into their main stat because doing anything else is just silly (excluding rare occasions).
    I just want to be clear that if the system I have proposed were to be implemented, it would be assumed that the 30 main stat points that you normally get through stat allotment would just be added into your base stats by default. Therefore you're not losing the 30 main stat that you already have currently. (In practice this is actually irrelevant because whether or not you have 30 stat makes no difference when it applies to everyone. You're 30 points stronger or weaker and content would simply be adjusted to account for this.)

    My idea is centered around the fact that not all gear sets have the optimal secondary stats for your class. The point is to create a greater variety of viable gear choices by giving the player a certain amount of secondary stats to freely play around with. It can be naturally assumed that BiS gear will always exist and cookie cutter builds would be based around this gear. However, to say that a given player will always be able to possess every piece of BiS gear is simply unrealistic.

    Therefore I disagree with the idea that this system would be equally as meaningless as the current system.
    (0)
    Last edited by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi; 08-19-2014 at 08:57 AM.

  6. #16
    Player
    Giantbane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,534
    Character
    Adol Giantbane
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Krypkins View Post
    As it works now, point for point, a main stat will ALWAYS be better than secondary stats. i.e. 30 str >>>>>>> 30 det. With monk for example, you would need roughly 90 det to equal 30 str.
    This isn't a concern since it applies to everyone equally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jican View Post
    I completely disagree. Aside from a few number that you need to pass the threshold to get a small percentage, there is really a lot of versitility if only you know how and what you wanted to do with the job. I'll use a tank as an example. You have the option to put more points into str, which increase your damage, which you get the most out of for your enimity generation. OR you could simply put more points into vit so you can take those hard hits. There is a min you need to pass for end game, past that, you can do what you want with your points. It's your game style, you do what suits you. If you don't believe me, play around with i90 pentamelded gear and see what you can get out of it. You'll be surprised. The reason people follow the crowd of putting points into main slots now is because this game is so new, it's hard to know exactly how the system computes a lot of stat allocation. It's "safer" to go mainstream, but as soon as you step outside that, you'll find a whole nother world out there. Good luck!
    This doesn't offer much choice still. At best you're talking about a choice between 2 stats. The other 4 stats are mostly worthless (DEX) or completely worthless (INT/MND/PIE). It's silly to be offered this many choices when 4/6 of the choices are very bad.

    Also VIT doesn't offer a lot of *choice*. VIT doesn't improve your mitigation at all, it just improves how much damage you can in 1 hit (or in a short time span). After you've reached whatever threshold for the content you're working on such that you can take the biggest hit necessary, you don't need any more at all. So STR is a good choice because it actually improves your damage. But it's still really not much of a choice. Do I have enough VIT? Good, go STR because VIT isn't doing anything anymore.

    Other classes get that to a small degree. Main stat vs. VIT. They can choose to go VIT in very high end content if there's a lot of AoE and they need to make minimum levels of VIT to take the hit. But it's still a very, very limited choice.

    With secondary stats, at least DET/Crit/Acc/Speed (skill or spell) all apply to everybody in some way, so at least most of the choices will benefit you in *some* way, even if there is one way to go that's a little better than the others.
    (2)

  7. #17
    Player
    Yonko's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    235
    Character
    Yonko Chao
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Jican View Post
    I completely disagree. Aside from a few number that you need to pass the threshold to get a small percentage, there is really a lot of versitility if only you know how and what you wanted to do with the job. I'll use a tank as an example. You have the option to put more points into str, which increase your damage, which you get the most out of for your enimity generation. OR you could simply put more points into vit so you can take those hard hits. There is a min you need to pass for end game, past that, you can do what you want with your points. It's your game style, you do what suits you. If you don't believe me, play around with i90 pentamelded gear and see what you can get out of it. You'll be surprised. The reason people follow the crowd of putting points into main slots now is because this game is so new, it's hard to know exactly how the system computes a lot of stat allocation. It's "safer" to go mainstream, but as soon as you step outside that, you'll find a whole nother world out there. Good luck!
    No the reason everyone puts the point in the main stat (besides tanks and they are a special case) is that doing otherwise is silly. If your a healer the only stat that would help you heal is MND putting points in STR/DEX/INT is a waste. VIT is a special case and is only useful for high end content and even then only to reach HP thresholds. PIE could be argued for a healer if you don't have enough MP for the content but even then it is easier to get PIE than MND from gear.

    If you take any other class you can make the same argument. Every class in this game has 1 job and only 1 stat makes that job easier. Tanks are the only job in this game that can be seen to have 2 jobs and that is Tank and deal damage. Which is why they can use both STR and VIT but it is all VIT till they can reach the HP levels needed.

    The same arguments can be made with secondary stats. There is a reason that there are BiS lists. People have figured out which stats will improve your performance the most using the system proposed by the OP people would still be putting the points in the same stats as 99% of everyone else. Again go look at the Novus weapon. Removing the gil requirement there is 1 (maybe 2 for some classes (BLM PIE cap)) builds for Novus.

    The only use I could see a system like this having is like Nutz said making it easier to hit ACC caps allowing you to equip different gear but even then there would very quickly be a BiS lists.

    It is the nature of MMOs when you have a bunch of people working to do one thing then everyone wants everyone to have optimal gear/playstyles so they don't waste time. Now BiS takes awhile to get which is the only reason a system like this would be useful in that you could compensate while you get other gear. But there would be BiS lists and people would do the math for what is the most optimal way to spend the points. People have done that with the Current system and gear they would do it with the new one.
    (1)
    Last edited by Yonko; 08-19-2014 at 09:47 PM. Reason: char limits on forums are stupid.

  8. #18
    Player
    Nama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    76
    Character
    Nama Kemono
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Weaver Lv 70
    I feel like alot of system changes like stat allocation are actually being worked on but being saved for expansion. Since altering things like this will change class balance, time and effort wise it makes sense to hold on to it till lv cap increase when class rebalancing will be a major focus.
    (0)

  9. #19
    Player
    Fiosha_Maureiba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah -> Gridania
    Posts
    2,044
    Character
    Fiofel Zalalafell
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 1
    With the way stats have been simplified (and DEX not affecting my mightae shield lob damage), I would like to see the stat allocation system thrown off Witchdrop and into the depths of Turn 3 abyss. Might as well distribute our points for us.

    Unless they want to open a can of delicious worms / eel and allow for the illusion of customizating traits, more cross-class skills, and class-specific traits, that might be phantagasmically nice.
    (1)

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