Age Old Question: VIT vs. STR

[Akkirei]

*Posting on behalf of Kitru*

The only time in which you should use your allocated ability points for VIT is if you are absolutely trying to max your hp (e.g. you're undergeared and need to survive big hits). The reason for it is simple: conversion rates.

Allocated ability points are only time that VIT and STR can be traded on a 1:1 basis. On accessories, you can convert STR to VIT on a 1:1.1-1.2 basis (i90 accs are 15 VIT to 13 STR; i110 accs are 21 VIT to 18 STR). As such, if you've got full VIT allocation and then wear STR gear (30 VIT + 5 * 18 STR = 30 VIT, 90 STR), you're getting less total STR than you would get by going with full STR allocation and just getting 30 points of VIT from your accs (30 STR + 3 * 18 STR + 2 * 21 VIT = 42 VIT, 84 STR; that's trading 6 STR for 12 VIT and only because it's exceeding the 30; if you go with just 1 VIT acc, you get 30 STR + 4 * 18 + 21 VIT = 21 VIT, 102 STR; that's trading 9 VIT for 12 STR; either way, you're getting a better than 1:1 conversion rate by going with full STR allocation and using accessories as your conversion).

In short, you should always go full STR allocation unless you have less than the required minimum hp with full VIT accs (for SCoB, that's ~7200 for PLD and ~9000 for WAR w/ Defiance). Even if you're just barely short of it, I would still go full STR since 110 gear is incredibly easy to get ahold of and you're going to break that barrier soon enough anyways.

This also is a decent segue into discussion of the Topaz accs, which are BiS when pentamelded, even if you're trying to max STR, because of the generally accepted minimum hp requirements:

As a Sea Wolf Roe, with full STR allocation and full STR accs at i110 (no food), I've got 7748 hp (in Defiance) and 544 STR. I would need to devote 2 slots to VIT gear, which is going to drop STR by 36 down to 508, in order to break 9k with food and party buff.

If you go with pentamelded Topaz accs, on the other hand, you will get 15 VIT and 13 STR on every single accessory, which gives 519 STR and 9108 hp in Defiance (without food or party buff). By using pentamelded accs, you're getting 9 more STR and ~500 more hp than you would with pure i110 accs. The only time you want to use i110 accs is if you don't care about one of the two stats, which is either when you're not really tanking (e.g. t7 add tank) or you need to absolutely maximize your hp in order to avoid dying (MT Savage SCoB).

[SeraviEdalborez]

This also is a decent segue into discussion of the Topaz accs, which are BiS when pentamelded

Are we using Topaz as a placeholder word for "Topaz or Ruby", or do we believe Topaz melds are superior to Ruby melds (or in other words, that the 90 parry > 90 skill speed?

Not that I think Speed is that big of a deal, just that Parry is a lackluster stat and Speed still benefits DPS ever so slightly.

[Ooshima]

Are we using Topaz as a placeholder word for "Topaz or Ruby", or do we believe Topaz melds are superior to Ruby melds (or in other words, that the 90 parry > 90 skill speed?

Not that I think Speed is that big of a deal, just that Parry is a lackluster stat and Speed still benefits DPS ever so slightly.

WARs generally would use Ruby because of the 2.38s GCD they want to stand by (the left side BiS pieces are all lacking in SS), and Parry is really useless to them compared to PLD.

PLD could legitimately use Topaz to stack Parry, and it is kind of cheaper to pentameld Topaz than Ruby because STR IV materia is dirt cheap compared to VIT IV

[Rbstr]

Strength materia are cheaper. Ruby will have you doing a bit more dps. There's little but personal preference to go either way, except getting more more hit in in some circumstances. Mix and match, if you want.
If you really want more dps, drop an i90 melded for an i110 strength acc.


Aside: There's no reason parry is better on pally than war. Not that you want to stack it on War either.

[Millen1]

I made a i90 HQ Topaz set for a PLD in my FC. Maxed out strength, accuracy and I forget if the last meld was det or crit. Crazy expensive set but in an 8 man dungeon or ST, he can rip hate off any other tank and keep it. It is a very interesting set to use. The tank keep the 1st 30 points as Vit and the melds add 75 more strength plus what ever else you want to meld on there. If you have the gil to penta meld 5 grade IV materia, this is an amazing set to do it on. When done I feel it puts the current i110 accessories to shame.

[kro]

As someone with 4/5 i110 STR accessories and fully melded Ruby Rings, I can say that Ruby is the best multipurpose option hands-down. Without HA axe, optimized i110 gear, food, or potions I do about 310-320 DPS on a dummy solo over a 90 second period. Putting on a pure i110 STR set increases that by about 5-10 DPS under the same conditions.

Solo HP in Defiance with STR set: 7695
Solo HP in Defiance with i90 melds: 9053

The only offensive melds I have on Ruby are 10 Det per piece with the rest in VIT and ACC. The 80 extra skill speed from Ruby works really well for WAR because you can reliably sneak in an extra fully-buffed Fracture in your Unchained/Berserk/IR combo and still end it with Inner Beast.

People say that going full VIT while learning is the better option, but being able to deal enough party-wide DPS to push phases or kill adds quickly is more important than an extra 400-500 HP. But even worse than going full VIT is the failure of tanks to swap stances in Titan EX or T6. That alone would increase your DPS in fights about 40-50 DPS. I see a lot of burn party PUGs in T6 fall just short of clearing even when the DDs do a good job for their ilvl.

Swap stances and put some effort into your DPS and you'll be much more useful than your average run of the mill meat shield.

[LukeyP666]

People say that going full VIT while learning is the better option, but being able to deal enough party-wide DPS to push phases or kill adds quickly is more important than an extra 400-500 HP. But even worse than going full VIT is the failure of tanks to swap stances in Titan EX or T6. That alone would increase your DPS in fights about 40-50 DPS. I see a lot of burn party PUGs in T6 fall just short of clearing even when the DDs do a good job for their ilvl.

Swap stances and put some effort into your DPS and you'll be much more useful than your average run of the mill meat shield.

^THIS^

My group and I used to struggle to push the phases quick enough on T6 until I re-specced 30 STR. We could clear it but we had to take 2 Honeys a lot of the time depending on the RNG with the Bulbs, and then stand around like lemons so we didn't then push it before the Honey was gone. Once I re-specced and started actually stance-dancing, it really helped.

Same for T7 - We were struggling to kill the first adds quick enough before the next one spawned, and my extra DPS helped push things that little bit more to get them down in time.

Now that our DPS all have better gear, it's no problem, but it definitely helped in the beginning.

I'm starting work on some Ruby/Topaz accessories now, but haven't made up my mind which way around to do them yet, as the Vitality IV and Strength IV Materia markets are all over the place at the moment.

[Ehayte]

VIT if you are in a static group that is not very strong / not very hardcore

STR is your group is full of awesome players

Somewhere in between if you are somewhere in between.

Both my WAR and PLD have 30 vit on them right now because I main MNK for my static but I will fill in as PLD or WAR if we are missing either for some reason, instead of trying to PUG that spot. With me not doing SBoC as a tank often enough, I feel better with the extra VIT since I feel that my strong suite is enmity generation in a timely manner, and one of my weaker points as a tank is CD management on things like... uhh... we'll just say 1st add phase in T7 for example (moving, grabbing hate, dodging circle blade, etc).

[MythToken]

Ive gone 15/15 and just stopped worrying about it. Best of both worlds.

[SirTaint]

The same can be said for STR allocation. I'm not really on either side, I just don't think there is a blanket answer for this question. It depends on your gear/progress/skill/group.

Ish

STR is always useful. VIT is only useful if you need the extra HP. 7700 is the max you need on PLD and even then it's rare. (Ravensbeak maxes out in the 76xx range)

But when doing a fight like t9 the chances of a tank not having a CD, SS/Aldo or parry/block proc is extremely rare and most of the time you'll have 2-3 of those thing happen to mitigate.

Pro-groups/tanks can do everything outside of savage coil with 7000ish HP probably less.