SE's most difinitive statement yet on parsers

[ispano]

Aye, they only show as flying text, but the numbers never make it further than that, they don't appear in the log or combat window and thus aren't really parseable via traditional math alone. Disable flying text in the options and dots won't get seen by a parser for example.

Ps sorry for the double post, not sure how I managed that!

*edit* wait nm, space-time continuum getting torn asunder by historic quoting!

Well, since most current parsers just read that data from memory, unless the option turns that aspect off too, it likely still reads them. But yeah, to manually parse dots you have to watch the screen. Doable, but really not feasible. But we just have to wait for addons and we won't have to worry about these arguments anymore.

Um... you didn't fix anything I said.

I directly quoted that word for word from SE, which you can see by looking at the link. So if you did fix anything, you basically just changed the meaning of what SE is saying is their rules as a company. Not me.

I didn't change the wording at all, I highlighted the actual relevant part, which you chose not to.

[Markas]

Why isnt this over yet?

[Sebazy]

Theres life yet!

[KaiKatzchen]

Fixed that for you. Their wording here is using any of these tools, and even they consider them tools, to do things you can't do normally. And a parser alone does not do that. Some current parsers out there however, have addons or plugins that do allow you to do things you shouldn't be able to do. But the parser itself does not do such things.

Um... you didn't fix anything I said.

I directly quoted that word for word from SE, which you can see by looking at the link. So if you did fix anything, you basically just changed the meaning of what SE is saying is their rules as a company. Not me.

[Mcshiggs]

Well, it won't actually be first party. It will still be made by a third party, but will be an addon instead of an external program. But yeah, will still allow parsing even though it's "cheating" according to these people. Really kind of funny.

If the add on is ok'd by SE, then it will no longer be cheating, it is only cheating now because it is a third party tool and all third party tools are against ToS, so by definition cheating. I would say it's really kind of funny this hasn't sunk in for you yet, but in fact it's really just kind of sad.

[Gormogon]

Think you missed my point completely.

I don't need a parser to figure out an ideal rotation. To test it sure it is helpful, but I'm confident enough in myself (and my team) to be able to figure it out with just the combat log and theory.

This whole argument is just bad players hating on other bad player for using tools they are too lazy to use. Its funny.

Entirely.

Rotations are self explanatory and there's many helpful indicators by the game through their description.

As a BLM. You cast fire 1 you notice you get astral fire, you read the text and it tells you what it's doing. Also I was surprise that double and triple flare never took off until speed runs became a thing and even then Super Double Flare is a concept that's difficult for some people to grasp.

SMN's rotation is simple as well especially when you have "fester" that states it does more damage with more dots. So your rotation becomes dot management. As for pets, I mean come on it's obvious that Garuda offers support and with the range attack it doesn't need to move.

Monk's rotation is also simple. Sure the AoE rotation sucks yet it helps with solo if you know how much damage your pulling off. It may get difficult knowing what to do with perfect balance but people figured it out.

Dragoon's rotation is also simple. While there's a lot of combo confusion going on it's self explanatory. The only thing is that enables loldrg was that Dragoons never resorted to using Jumps as punishable moves or gap closers when certain fights called for it.

Bard's rotation is also self explanatory. Keep the dots up manage your buffs. Only thing is managing songs to help your group that rarely anyone ever does.

Same with the tanks rotation and healers. Everything is self explanatory as long as you read and you test your trait and combo procs as you level and it should come to you naturally.

It's gonna be the same for Rogue/Ninja once its released in 2.4.

Parsers is just a quality of life tool that helps people understand their stat distribution better since you don't have to number crunch. Yet people that use parsers for damage never set an avg threshold that's okay to go by instead all they look at is their Max DPS value and complain when someone's not up to their max dps standard.

Personally though I'm starting to see ilvl do exactly that.

[ispano]

If the add on is ok'd by SE, then it will no longer be cheating, it is only cheating now because it is a third party tool and all third party tools are against ToS, so by definition cheating. I would say it's really kind of funny this hasn't sunk in for you yet, but in fact it's really just kind of sad.

No, what's sad is you coupling something with something it's not. Third Party Programs being disallowed in the ToS does not make the act of parsing, cheating. You can argue, like I said earlier, til you're blue in the face and it still will not be true. People do this all the time. They want to "simplify" and classify many things under one term so they don't have to think about it, and you may not be doing that, but that's what's happening.

When you can show me how a parser bypasses game rules, keyword GAME rules, since that's what a cheat does, I MIGHT listen to you. Cheats always make something easier. Not all things that make something easier, are cheats. So, please, blue yourself in the face.

Lastly, assuming the addon is ok'd by SE, parsers we have now will still not be allowed, NOT because they are parsers or that parsers are cheating. Since they never were. They would be not allowed due to being third party programs.

Please realize the disconnect you're having, because I'm done trying to teach you.

If they ever allow an addon or implement an in game parser it will no longer be cheating because even though it would provide an advantage, it would no long be breaking a rule to do it.

No, i'll do one more. No, they would still be against the ToS. Only the one built for the addon API would be allowed. Parsing with something like XIVAPP or others like it, would still be classified under Third Party Programs and Disallowed. Again, nothing to do with the fact that it is a parser. But the fact it's a third party program. Everything you've posted even clearly STATES that, and you ignore it and try to use it for your own argument.

Read that one sentence you quoted from me very carefully, let all the words sink in, I said if they allow an add on or put one in game, it would no longer violate ToS, you are the one ignoring what people post. Not sure why you are bringing up the app, I never mentioned it there, I said the ones they ok would not violate ToS. You are either just so angry you can't prove your point you are ignoring what folks post and even imply stuff we never mention, or there is some disconnect between what you read and what you comprehend and retain.

And that's my post limit for the day, feels kind of wasted so many on this one subject because some folks can't read facts put before them, comprehend them, and accept that no matter how much they argue it has been clearly laid out by the devs.

Why am I bringing up the app, because THAT is what's against the rules. Not the act of parsing. That's what YOU don't comprehend. You try to bundle it all together like they're both the same, when they're not. Your words about the mod and it become non-cheating even proves it. Being against the ToS is only because it's a third party program. NOTHING else. You just choose to think so.

Read the bolded part from the lodestone, tools that parse data are against ToS, are you not seeing that? If you are so certain that you can parse and it's all ok, I will gladly make a character on your server, I will go to a target dummy and you can parse me and whisper me the results, I'll report it to a GM and we will see if the simple act of paring is ok or not.

Do we need to get an English Major in here? Because you're reading the meaning of that line incorrectly.

[Tashigi]

If the add on is ok'd by SE, then it will no longer be cheating, it is only cheating now because it is a third party tool and all third party tools are against ToS, so by definition cheating. I would say it's really kind of funny this hasn't sunk in for you yet, but in fact it's really just kind of sad.

to conduct actions players would not normally be able to do in the game

You can parse without the parser. If you normally couldn't, then it would be found against TOS. Though, that's questionable, given that a parser doesn't play the game for you. It simply supplies you with information that would otherwise be slightly more difficult to obtain.

The fact that the parser in question is found within a third party utility, is what makes it against TOS; so you're correct in saying that. But I still giggle at the thought of it being "cheating" to parse; since you can do it even without this third party tool (Just open the combat log under your saved files and have at it).

This is the glaring difference that a lot of you are not understanding.
The act of parsing could never be against TOS or be considered cheating, because it's more than doable by anyone, without any addon/third party tool/etc.
When addons become available, it'll simply make it easier/more convenient.

The current parsers are against TOS; because of how they currently function.
This thread was a joke since the first post; everyone with a head on their shoulders knew SE stance on this. But also knew that parsing is more than commonplace in this genre of games. Even SE supports the idea; they wouldn't give you access to so much combat info in the first place if they didn't. (Again, open your combat log in whatever folder you keep it and see for yourself).

[kidvideo]

(Again, open your combat log in whatever folder you keep it and see for yourself).

I took apart my PS4 & could not find it.

[Mcshiggs]

arguing with myself

There is a link on the first page, not sure if you didn't read it, didn't click, or just refuse to believe it because it makes parsing cheating.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...620.1397906412
We would also like to remind players that third-party tools that modify or parse game data violate the User Agreement, and that players who are found to be using these tools will be met with strict disciplinary action.

The act of parsing isn't cheating, the use a third party tool makes it cheating. Straight from the lodestone, any tools that modify or parse game data violate the User Agreement.
Now incase you didn't read the post I made earlier that gave the definition of cheating,

Definition of cheat: to break a rule or law usually to gain an advantage at something

So there you have it, when you use a third party tool, you are breaking the User Agreement, a list of rules you agree to when you play this game.
The reason people parse is that it provides a benefit or advantage. By definition since using a third party tool to parse breaks a rule and you gain an advantage it is cheating. If they ever allow an addon or implement an in game parser it will no longer be cheating because even though it would provide an advantage, it would no long be breaking a rule to do it.
I have laid this out pretty much as simply as I can, and if anyone can't see it, then wow.

No, i'll do one more. No, they would still be against the ToS. Only the one built for the addon API would be allowed. Parsing with something like XIVAPP or others like it, would still be classified under Third Party Programs and Disallowed. Again, nothing to do with the fact that it is a parser. But the fact it's a third party program. Everything you've posted even clearly STATES that, and you ignore it and try to use it for your own argument.

Read that one sentence you quoted from me very carefully, let all the words sink in, I said if they allow an add on or put one in game, it would no longer violate ToS, you are the one ignoring what people post. Not sure why you are bringing up the app, I never mentioned it there, I said the ones they ok would not violate ToS. You are either just so angry you can't prove your point you are ignoring what folks post and even imply stuff we never mention, or there is some disconnect between what you read and what you comprehend and retain. As for what you say about what I post states that it is against the rules because it is a third party program is exactly what I am attempting to get across. As long as it is against the User Agreement it is breaking the rules. If you don't want to call it cheating ok, most cheaters don't like being told they are cheating, that's on the folks breaking the rules not me, but by definition the fact that using a third party tool to parse is technically cheating right now. If they change it in the future, by adding addons or what ever, that is the future, currently it's no ok'd. If you would read that lodestone post they do single out programs that parse data specifically.

Why am I bringing up the app, because THAT is what's against the rules. Not the act of parsing. That's what YOU don't comprehend. You try to bundle it all together like they're both the same, when they're not. Your words about the mod and it become non-cheating even proves it. Being against the ToS is only because it's a third party program. NOTHING else. You just choose to think so.

Read the bolded part from the lodestone, tools that parse data are against ToS, are you not seeing that? If you are so certain that you can parse and it's all ok, I will gladly make a character on your server, I will go to a target dummy and you can parse me and whisper me the results, I'll report it to a GM and we will see if the simple act of paring is ok or not.

And that's my post limit for the day, feels kind of wasted so many on this one subject because some folks can't read facts put before them, comprehend them, and accept that no matter how much they argue it has been clearly laid out by the devs.