SE's most difinitive statement yet on parsers

[Tiggy]

All we can resort to? I specifically broke down why the example you gave was terrible but you just go ahead and disregard my totally relevant points, they probably went over your head anyways.

This is what he does. He immediately went to say "Seems that's all you pro parsing people can ever resort to." which falls into the "You guys never get what I say anyway" type of stuff he always bring sup when you corner him with a good argument.

The crazy part is, we don't need a parser to see you are terrible.

That's not always the problem though. For example, when you're tackling turn 8 or 9 everyone in your party may look to be doing pretty well based on your hate meters. The tanks outstripping everyone nicely so they are holding hate fine, and everyone in the party is right in line with one another (exceptions going to hate reduction moves), but in the end you just aren't even coming close to the DPS check of the fight. The team sits stumped. Wondering "Why can't we beat this? Everyone's hate meters seem to be properly in line!" but once a parser gets thrown at the battle it becomes clear. Everyone in the group is equally below the thresholds required to win the battle. Everyone needs to step it up because no one is succeeding.

See the entire "threat meter" argument assumes that if you are all equal then you're all doing alright, but that's a flaw. It only works when at least 1 person is absolutely killing damage so that everyone else has a baseline amount of threat to strive for. When you all fail the entire system falls completely apart. It is a flawed method. Perfectly fine for low end content, but completely useless for end game content.

[Staris]

This is what he does. He immediately went to say "Seems that's all you pro parsing people can ever resort to." which falls into the "You guys never get what I say anyway" type of stuff he always bring sup when you corner him with a good argument.



That's not always the problem though. For example, when you're tackling turn 8 or 9 everyone in your party may look to be doing pretty well based on your hate meters. The tanks outstripping everyone nicely so they are holding hate fine, and everyone in the party is right in line with one another (exceptions going to hate reduction moves), but in the end you just aren't even coming close to the DPS check of the fight. The team sits stumped. Wondering "Why can't we beat this? Everyone's hate meters seem to be properly in line!" but once a parser gets thrown at the battle it becomes clear. Everyone in the group is equally below the thresholds required to win the battle. Everyone needs to step it up because no one is succeeding.

See the entire "threat meter" argument assumes that if you are all equal then you're all doing alright, but that's a flaw. It only works when at least 1 person is absolutely killing damage so that everyone else has a baseline amount of threat to strive for. When you all fail the entire system falls completely apart. It is a flawed method. Perfectly fine for low end content, but completely useless for end game content.

Think you missed my point completely.

I don't need a parser to figure out an ideal rotation. To test it sure it is helpful, but I'm confident enough in myself (and my team) to be able to figure it out with just the combat log and theory. We have also never hit a dps check in our progression in this entire game. I don't even know what the enrages look like on turn 6-9. Do turn 6 and 7 even have hard enrages?

Now when we pug someone for some primal or ST or something, this is when we can easily judge based on abiltiies cast/threat/ect

It's really not that hard to tell when someone is terrible.

Someone doing 5% worse may be impossible to tell.... But people do far far worse than you could imagine. I have always called people out when it annoys me enough, and I have not needed, will never need a parser to do so.

Anything someone can do with a 3rd party parser, a person can do with a calculator and a pad of paper and the combat log. It just takes more time/effort.

This whole argument is just bad players hating on other bad player for using tools they are too lazy to use. Its funny.

[IngMae]

Think you missed my point completely.

I don't need a parser to figure out an ideal rotation. To test it sure it is helpful, but I'm confident enough in myself (and my team) to be able to figure it out with just the combat log and theory. We have also never hit a dps check in our progression in this entire game. I don't even know what the enrages look like on turn 6-9. Do turn 6 and 7 even have hard enrages?

Now when we pug someone for some primal or ST or something, this is when we can easily judge based on abiltiies cast/threat/ect

It's really not that hard to tell when someone is terrible.

Someone doing 5% worse may be impossible to tell.... But people do far far worse than you could imagine. I have always called people out when it annoys me enough, and I have not needed, will never need a parser to do so.

T6 doesn't have a timed/hard enrage as after super slug raffy gets stacks, if she gets 10 stacks you wipe. So while its not a 'timed' enrage, it still is a enraged mechanic if you choose to burn the boss.

T7 has a hard enrage timer.

T8 has a hard enrage timer.

Still working on T9 so I'll not talk about what I don't know.

Oh btw, after you finish turn 8 please come and tell me about not meeting dps checks ^^

You can thank someone who parsed it for knowing what the dps check is for those fights.

All I see from the anti-parser crowd is " its against TOS" so its illegal.... well killing is illegal, and cars can kill people so should all cars be banned? Shades of grey people.

And now we have a car analogy, just waiting for Hitler to pop up so we can stick a fork in this thread

[Clavaat]

All I see from the anti-parser crowd is " its against TOS" so its illegal.... well killing is illegal, and cars can kill people so should all cars be banned? Shades of grey people.

And now we have a car analogy, just waiting for Hitler to pop up so we can stick a fork in this thread

You're not looking hard enough. The thread OP is about what SE has stated in regards to this. It is third party software, it is bannable, end of story. You don't have to be "anti-parser" to see that. I wouldn't mind tracking my DPS, but seeing as how I can get banned if caught, I won't take the risk. It's that simple. If you choose to, good luck, don't get caught. Debating the morality of a parser is so pointless...it doesn't matter what the intent is anymore.

[Gormogon]

Think you missed my point completely.

I don't need a parser to figure out an ideal rotation. To test it sure it is helpful, but I'm confident enough in myself (and my team) to be able to figure it out with just the combat log and theory.

This whole argument is just bad players hating on other bad player for using tools they are too lazy to use. Its funny.

Entirely.

Rotations are self explanatory and there's many helpful indicators by the game through their description.

As a BLM. You cast fire 1 you notice you get astral fire, you read the text and it tells you what it's doing. Also I was surprise that double and triple flare never took off until speed runs became a thing and even then Super Double Flare is a concept that's difficult for some people to grasp.

SMN's rotation is simple as well especially when you have "fester" that states it does more damage with more dots. So your rotation becomes dot management. As for pets, I mean come on it's obvious that Garuda offers support and with the range attack it doesn't need to move.

Monk's rotation is also simple. Sure the AoE rotation sucks yet it helps with solo if you know how much damage your pulling off. It may get difficult knowing what to do with perfect balance but people figured it out.

Dragoon's rotation is also simple. While there's a lot of combo confusion going on it's self explanatory. The only thing is that enables loldrg was that Dragoons never resorted to using Jumps as punishable moves or gap closers when certain fights called for it.

Bard's rotation is also self explanatory. Keep the dots up manage your buffs. Only thing is managing songs to help your group that rarely anyone ever does.

Same with the tanks rotation and healers. Everything is self explanatory as long as you read and you test your trait and combo procs as you level and it should come to you naturally.

It's gonna be the same for Rogue/Ninja once its released in 2.4.

Parsers is just a quality of life tool that helps people understand their stat distribution better since you don't have to number crunch. Yet people that use parsers for damage never set an avg threshold that's okay to go by instead all they look at is their Max DPS value and complain when someone's not up to their max dps standard.

Personally though I'm starting to see ilvl do exactly that.

[Sebazy]

SMN's rotation is simple as well especially when you have "fester" that states it does more damage with more dots. So your rotation becomes dot management. As for pets, I mean come on it's obvious that Garuda offers support and with the range attack it doesn't need to move.

Which tooltip notes that Miasma II is a DPS loss on a single target, unless you are about to contagion in which case it's a gain?

I'm also not sure which tooltip explains that Shadowflare is also a DPS loss on a single target unless you have swift cast going spare, again, more DPS.

I'm also confused as to what in game help or description covers the merits of burning rouse/spur on cooldown as opposed to saving them for pet cooldowns.

The game also makes zero mention of Ruin II's merits and when it's worth using over ruin 1 despite the high MP cost.

Lets be honest now, the game doesn't even explain that Summoners shouldn't really have Titan out in dungeons, let alone any of the little DPS details that make such a big difference. A SMN that doesn't know these details and more will not be able to make progress in Savage Coil (Or much of regular coil2 frankly). The only way to know these details is via direct or indirect parsing.

Yet people that use parsers for damage never set an avg threshold that's okay to go by instead all they look at is their Max DPS value and complain when someone's not up to their max dps standard.

There you go with those sweeping generalisations again!

In which we have this addict level of "I can't live without it" that has produced such a state of mind in these people that you can no longer reason with. Since you constantly see them constantly drag it back to the same vicious cycle that consist of insults and belittlement.

Please quote any example of me using insults and belittlement to further my side of this debate.

I'll be waiting.

Ps still waiting <3

[kidvideo]

The only way to know these details is via direct or indirect parsing.

You learn a Summoner's abilities by playing the job, not by parsing. You learn about your abilities by reading the description, not by parsing.

Ruin II, among other abilities, can be used while your dodging because of instant cast, Ruin I for MP conservation.

Titan can be used in a dungeon, under the right circumstances & with the proper control.

This knowledge comes from experience, not parsing.

[Dwill]

Snip

After the opening rotation and once mechanics kicks in, there is no fixed rotation anymore. It all becomes a priority system.

This as been stated multiple times but it doesn't come as a surprise considering your knack for ignoring everything that contradicts you or proves you wrong.

You learn a Summoner's abilities by playing the job, not by parsing. You learn about your abilities by reading the description, not by parsing.

Ruin II, among other abilities, can be used while your dodging because of instant cast, Ruin I for MP conservation.

Titan can be used in a dungeon, under the right circumstances & with the proper control.

This knowledge comes from experience, not parsing.

Being able to read a tooltip is not experience. Titan being able to tank when you support him is not knowledge, that's what tank pet and classes do.

Actual knowledge requires you to test multiple rotations, math out the maximal potency out of each of them, look at what is and what isn't on the GCD to weave skills in, knowing if certain situations warrant clipping DoTs, knowing when Shadowflare becomes a single target buff in correlation to its cast time and the certainty that the boss will not move for said amount of time. It's knowing how to micro manage your pet without taking a hit to your damage. Actual knowledge comes testing your job, from wanting to min-max it, learning as much as you can out of it, to push it to its limit and with that knowledge, put it into experience to try to become even better. Then you can say you know you really know your job. And with the tool available in the game, it's not just not feasible to do all of this. After all, how do you think accuracy caps were figured out ?

Reading a tooltip is not experience nor is it knowledge. You can say that you don't need a parser to learn the basics and that's true. But don't come and say just reading the tooltips will make you the best at your job. You always need a way to validate your data and inputs and the game by itself does not allows us to do that. So there is no way that you can come here and say you're just as good as everybody else based on what you see in game, it's just not true.

By the way, it's kind of ironic to see you talking about optimizing your job and knowing how to play yet you do not even have Swiftcast as a Summoner.

[kidvideo]

But don't come and say just reading the tooltips will make you the best at your job.

Didn't say anything about "tooltips". But keep reading & don't make up things that weren't said. "This knowledge comes from experience, not parsing."

But I do apologize for assuming comprehension followed reading an abilities description. Such as, an instant cast means you can move while casting & not reduce your dps. Nothing explain that to me, it just seemed obvious. Nothing explained that you use shadowflare when mobs are stationary... that just seemed obvious. The ability descriptions with cast time & duration, & affects based on other abilities, basically explain the optimal rotation for single & multiple targets. That's the "experience" part of the sentence you missed.

A parser was unnecessary.