SE's most difinitive statement yet on parsers

[Tupsi]

Parsers in itself are a nonissue, but it's a 3rd party tool and is mostly used to berate people, not "help you do better" - That's why they said they're iffy on including one officially and the only one they do have is to check balance on encounters. If the "more efficient" players didn't use it to belittle the console players, I'm pretty sure SE would still turn a blind eye to it, but the more harassment that keeps happening with it the more likely SE is to say "nope no go."

So realistically, you only have the players to blame for misusing such a harmless tool.

[Elven]

Parsers in itself are a nonissue, but it's a 3rd party tool and is mostly used to berate people, not "help you do better" - That's why they said they're iffy on including one officially and the only one they do have is to check balance on encounters. If the "more efficient" players didn't use it to belittle the console players, I'm pretty sure SE would still turn a blind eye to it, but the more harassment that keeps happening with it the more likely SE is to say "nope no go."

So realistically, you only have the players to blame for misusing such a harmless tool.

I actually think that is the only reason why there is no official parser because players will harass other players with it. If SE came out tomorrow and said they were working on one please look forward to it. I would have no problem knowing everyone is on the same playing field.

[Souljacker]

I actually think that is the only reason why there is no official parser because players will harass other players with it. If SE came out tomorrow and said they were working on one please look forward to it. I would have no problem knowing everyone is on the same playing field.

What constitutes "harassment" though? Kicking a player from a party because they aren't doing well and won't improve? This already happens and I don't think that is in any way, shape or form "harassment". If I put up a PF because I want to complete a mission, you'd better believe I'm going to kick any weak links that aren't showing signs of improvement. That's because I respect my time, and the time of the other people who have joined the party hoping to complete content.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say the person who is doing the "actual" harassment is the tool who refuses to improve himself because he's a special snowflake that should get to be carried and everyone should just stop being so MEAN to him. You've been in*that* party with *that* player who doesn't know how to count (consistently attacked wrong mob), doesn't know how to position himself (I was in a group once with a monk who circled the mob, just kept circling it and circling it as he did his attacks - wow), or just uses one attack because they don't understand how their job works (a Sunken temple with a blm who did nothing but blizzard because he "never runs out of mp".... sheesh).

THOSE are the players who are harassing the REST of us, and they DO need to be educated properly. But in each case, even without the benefit of a parser because these were such glaringly obvious fails, instead of listening to advice, these players brought attitude and hid behind the ToS because this is what SE apparently wants to protect by vilifying parsers.

This is a bigger issue than being able to gauge the performance of the group. It's an attitude that bad players should be carried by good players who work harder to learn the encounters and their rotations and I will never, ever, agree with that. Players should be expected to perform their jobs adequately and in a way that is consistent with the accepted standards for that job. In 4 man parties it's easy to pick out the idiot circle-strafing a PvE mob or the blm using nothing but blizzard. In a large-scale encounter you can't just sit there and watch what every single person is doing every single second. You have to be able to go back through logs to see what can be improved.

It's true in real life, and it's true in game theory as well.

[Parawill]

I actually think that is the only reason why there is no official parser because players will harass other players with it.

In a business standpoint, with the amount of complaints coming from parsers--albeit the fact that everyone seems to be blaming the tool rather than the actual person who is harassing people with gathered data (facts) and then speculating and blaming the entire group--it's better to not have an official parser as it seems the majority has a dislike on parsers and also that the game is apparently catered towards casual gamers.

So... Square Enix's stance on anti-parsers (which by the way, seems to be very lenient) is to benefit the business as a whole while reaping the side benefit of not having to deal with harassment issues for when it wasn't a pressing issue. That's how I see it anyways.

If only there wasn't such a negative stigma towards those who parse. Oh well.

[Elven]

If only there wasn't such a negative stigma towards those who parse. Oh well.

I think it's because those that do parse don't see it as cheating and the arguments and rationalization they present that it isn't always over look the fact that it is simply cheating because it's not allowed under the current Tos.

[ispano]

I think it's because those that do parse don't see it as cheating and the arguments and rationalization they present that it isn't always over look the fact that it is simply cheating because it's not allowed under the current Tos.

Sorry, like Krr said. Not allowed by the ToS != Cheating.

[Krr]

Account sharing, an almost ubiquitous item across MMORPGs, is an extremely good example of this. While sharing your accounts isn't "cheating" and they're more or less exchanged or gifted like bought property (materially, not legally,) the concern is not that account sharing is inherently destructive to the game or the community but that they cannot officially support it happening, due to player safety concerns and liability.

("X logged into my account and stole my credit card! You're responsible!" "No, sorry, account sharing is against the ToS so we have no liability beyond our obligation to ban your account to prevent this behavior.")

Many, many things condemned by policy are done not because they are "immoral" or "wrong", they are done to protect the interests of the company in terms of legal liability in the event that an innocent activity turns into legal damages.

As a side-effect the universal bans of say, both account sharing and third-party software, also give the company convenient outs to ban actually destructive behavior, like people operating botter hiveminds. But their only purpose isn't to "identify cheaters" by a long shot.

[Assirra]

Parsers in itself are a nonissue, but it's a 3rd party tool and is mostly used to berate people, not "help you do better" - That's why they said they're iffy on including one officially and the only one they do have is to check balance on encounters. If the "more efficient" players didn't use it to belittle the console players, I'm pretty sure SE would still turn a blind eye to it, but the more harassment that keeps happening with it the more likely SE is to say "nope no go."

So realistically, you only have the players to blame for misusing such a harmless tool.

I seriously demand some proof to this berating and abusing people spewing about nonstop.
In other games there are not nearly as much people that do as is getting told here.

[Souljacker]

I seriously demand some proof to this berating and abusing people spewing about nonstop.
In other games there are not nearly as much people that do as is getting told here.

Or maybe this is just the "mature FF crowd" admitting to their own flaws. If I had a gil for every time I saw someone post on Alla forums or somewhere else about how bad other gaming communities were and how mature and awesome the FF playerbase was in comparison, I'd probably own the entire lavender beds by now. And you know what? It was pretty much all BS.

The truth is, this playerbase is pretty toxic so maybe there IS some merit to the concerns of abuse via parsers, but I have news. Parsers are already being used. They exist. They are real. Real things don't need PR.

SE isn't going to ban the guild that didn't let that playstation player into their group. They probably don't even seriously investigate parsing allegations unless there is very serious verbal abuse to go along with it. I've yet to see a report by someone who was banned just because they were reported as a parser user. Abusive players are abusive players whether they use parsers or not, and that's not going to change, ever, no matter what the ToS says or what stance SE takes on it, just like someone is going to code a parser no matter what the ToS says or what stance SE takes on it. SE wants to rail against such tools, where other games have accepted and embraced them into a toolkit that they can control, and break products on a whim.

The difference in approach is what will make or break this game in the long term. SE can't keep ignoring modern mmo trends and expect to be taken seriously in the mmo space. They did the impossible in turning this game around after a completely failed relaunch, but Yoshi-P is seriously fooling himself if he thinks the work has ended. It's just beginning now.

[Kayo]

I seriously demand some proof to this berating and abusing people spewing about nonstop.
In other games there are not nearly as much people that do as is getting told here.

^^Obviously hasnt played a game that fully allows parsers to be used, specifically those with a real-time HUD. I completely agree with Tupsi and am glad SE has taken their stance against it. Parsers are not actually ever NEEDED. Never ONCE in my 11+ years of MMOs have I ever seen anyone use a parser to help someone, EVER. 100% of the time parsers come up, its some d-bag running his mouth, yelling, insulting, and ultimately excluding someone.

Now ill admit that yes, its possible that some patient good samaritan help someone with it ... and im sure its happened before. My point is its obviously a rare sight and not worth the problems it otherwise causes. (An event requiring compassion, empathy, and humility towards a stranger is a rare sight? Shocking!) They are a small rarely use convenience for those who use them correctly and only serve to make things easier and faster for them to win. Everyone else uses them to point fingers, yell, and insult others.

Im all for an in-game practice dummy UI or maybe one that privately gives you your own information. Anything so long at it doesnt help the trolls.