SE's most difinitive statement yet on parsers

[Reynhart]

I said a player made parser/meter, not something made by SE.

Since Yoshi has a clear view of parsing tools and how they are used to harass people (sometimes), I don't see him changing the user agreement to make it legal.

[ispano]

Since Yoshi has a clear view of parsing tools and how they are used to harass people (sometimes), I don't see him changing the user agreement to make it legal.

Well, that's the thing. He talked about addons fairly recently. And one of his comments was that they would have access to data the client has access to, such as damage and healing data. So, yeah, I do see it happening.

[Gormogon]

Since Yoshi has a clear view of parsing tools and how they are used to harass people (sometimes), I don't see him changing the user agreement to make it legal.

It's also not even needed. I don't see why players are so dependent on it. There's already a ton of resources on how to "git gud" with your job/role, such as visiting the classes & jobs roles section.

It's not like there's any diverse form of playing your role outside of trying to aim for a certain type of "stat" build with acquired gear. Even then acc cap will always house the most importance.

A parser on training dummies only would be useless, as at end game even though you know your rotation, you may be doing less damage on encounter X or Y, you need to be able to analyse why.

My sides, pls seriously stop.

[saeedaisspecial]

git gud
My sides, pls seriously stop.

At this point it's clear you're just a troll who should head back to /v/.

The main goal is to see which stat gives you the greater boost. Should I focus on Deter, or Critical ? Maybe Skill speed can change something too.
On harder content, numbers will be lower, but the ratio will probably be the same.

While true, there are occasions where you need to stop and take a look at a singular fight to figure out why you're not making DPS checks.
Two players of the same job may be doing the same rotation, but one may be producing significantly higher numbers than another, taking an in depth look at a parse could yield some insight into this.

[ispano]

At this point it's clear you're just a troll who should head back to /v/.

Oh he's been trolling these forums for a while. I even tested him on a similar subject and he failed miserably, of course he would never admit to it.

[Mcshiggs]

While true, there are occasions where you need to stop and take a look at a singular fight to figure out why you're not making DPS checks.
Two players of the same job may be doing the same rotation, but one may be producing significantly higher numbers than another, taking an in depth look at a parse could yield some insight into this.

So you don't just want a simple parser that tells dps, you want something like world of logs where you can see stuff like buff and debuff up time and all that. I'm one of those that right now, they say parsers are against the rules, so I think using them is wrong, right now. I see the use from them, and if they ok them in the future so be it, but they are just a tool, they are by no means required. While it was nifty to look at, world of logs was just ridiculous in the amount of information it gave and it was ridiculous when raid groups started making you link your Logs page to them so they could evaluate you before they decided if you were worthy of grouping with them. And that is the kind of stuff SE is trying to avoid. They would rather a group give you a shot, and kick you if you don't measure up, rather than dismissing you based on numbers before hand.

Also dps isn't always as clear as folks think, if I roll into a raid as a monk, and see there is a better geared monk there, I will make sure he knows that I will handle the dragon kick buff, so he can maximize his dps. To some people if they see the dps numbers afterward, I suck because his numbers are so much better than mine, but if you think about it, some of his dps is because of me, every other rotation, he gets a free crit bootshine because of me. If you have people that know about this kind of stuff, they can handle the parsers ok, but I doubt the majority of the people would do that if they had access to parsers, they would see his numbers, my numbers, then tell me to get better and kick me. Now the opposite, if I was the better geared monk, and asked the other one to keep dragon kick up, it's going to be a 50/50 shot, either he will because he cares more about the party and wants to get the clear, or he won't because he cares more about his numbers, and the party comes second.

[saeedaisspecial]

So you don't just want a simple parser that tells dps, you want something like world of logs where you can see stuff like buff and debuff up time and all that. I'm one of those that right now, they say parsers are against the rules, so I think using them is wrong, right now. I see the use from them, and if they ok them in the future so be it, but they are just a tool, they are by no means required. While it was nifty to look at, world of logs was just ridiculous in the amount of information it gave and it was ridiculous when raid groups started making you link your Logs page to them so they could evaluate you before they decided if you were worthy of grouping with them. And that is the kind of stuff SE is trying to avoid. They would rather a group give you a shot, and kick you if you don't measure up, rather than dismissing you based on numbers before hand.

Also dps isn't always as clear as folks think, if I roll into a raid as a monk, and see there is a better geared monk there, I will make sure he knows that I will handle the dragon kick buff, so he can maximize his dps. To some people if they see the dps numbers afterward, I suck because his numbers are so much better than mine, but if you think about it, some of his dps is because of me, every other rotation, he gets a free crit bootshine because of me. If you have people that know about this kind of stuff, they can handle the parsers ok, but I doubt the majority of the people would do that if they had access to parsers, they would see his numbers, my numbers, then tell me to get better and kick me. Now the opposite, if I was the better geared monk, and asked the other one to keep dragon kick up, it's going to be a 50/50 shot, either he will because he cares more about the party and wants to get the clear, or he won't because he cares more about his numbers, and the party comes second.

What you are describing in your first paragraph is a player issue. I do not think that parsers should be limited because some people may misuse them. It would be like banning cars because some people use them to kill people. Instead, as others have stated in the thread multiple times, players should be punished for harassment over parse data, as opposed to punished for parsing.

As far your second paragraph, that is something that an in depth parser would reveal to someone that utilised it properly. Again, it would be a player not reading their parse correctly. Not an inherent problem with parsing, but with how people read it.
Maybe if we lived in a perfect world, no one would find fault with parsers because no one would harass people over them.

[Mcshiggs]

What you are describing in your first paragraph is a player issue.

Have you not been playing XIV, I'm not saying what is right and wrong, I am saying this is how SE handles it. Everything from not being able to mail to our alts, to crafting not being a part of end game, it opens it up for RMT abuse, player issues, not issues with the system itself. SE has made it clear they want to avoid handing people information players can use to harass others. I believe that if parsers were to be implemented, some would use them properly, but I am sure that tons of people would use them the way SE doesn't want them to be used. Turn 7 seeking monk, must parse X dps or get kicked, that is what SE doesn't want, but that is what parsers would bring. You have to remember this is a business, saying they should put them in and just police how people use them would mean they would probably have to hire more GMs, or you could expect ticket times to go from hours to days. I am sure they have looked at this from every direction, and have their idea on how useful they would be versus how much wasted time for GMs and grief for players they would cause.

I have used parsers in other games I know how useful they can be, but I have also seen the community in this game, and have seen how hateful they can be, parsers would just add another flame for them to fan. Some parsers too, require multiple people to have to be completely accurate, if you are too far away, sometime this can be just on the other side of the room, from the person parsing, your numbers could come up low because their parser didn't pick up everything, and this helps bring in, not only you must parse X to get in my group, you must also have these addons to be welcome as well.

[Tashigi]

I have used parsers in other games I know how useful they can be, but I have also seen the community in this game, and have seen how hateful they can be, parsers would just add another flame for them to fan.

People will be jerks regardless of what you give or take away from them.
You're essentially punishing everyone, just to get a select few. I would be greatly opposed to this approach.

[Gormogon]

Also dps isn't always as clear as folks think, if I roll into a raid as a monk, and see there is a better geared monk there, I will make sure he knows that I will handle the dragon kick buff, so he can maximize his dps. To some people if they see the dps numbers afterward, I suck because his numbers are so much better than mine, but if you think about it, some of his dps is because of me, every other rotation, he gets a free crit bootshine because of me. If you have people that know about this kind of stuff, they can handle the parsers ok, but I doubt the majority of the people would do that if they had access to parsers, they would see his numbers, my numbers, then tell me to get better and kick me. Now the opposite, if I was the better geared monk, and asked the other one to keep dragon kick up, it's going to be a 50/50 shot, either he will because he cares more about the party and wants to get the clear, or he won't because he cares more about his numbers, and the party comes second.

Yeah it's pretty sad that I've never seen a "parser" ever state that kind of stuff and that's what causes such selfish play and you can see it a lot during speed runs and when bards don't want to play songs and so on and so on.

As far your second paragraph, that is something that an in depth parser would reveal to someone that utilised it properly.

That's some good trolling right there.