SE's most difinitive statement yet on parsers

[Stormrider]

Ok SE pays people to help(carry) people through content. Last time i checked when i get Aurum Vale on low level roulette for some new players SE pays me in myth and stuff to help/(carry) them. So we are all agreed?

Two parsers are probably not the definition of cheating. But anything that allows you to grief or question other players abilities, is probably never going to see the light of day. Fight club rules aside people can't keep there mouth shut. A wipe on Ifrit HM and the tank starts spewing numbers. "no ones above 16" " What the hell are you all doing, I am above half of you." Was the group bad yes. No amount of healing or tanking is going to carry a group that can't get nails down. But using a TOOL to belittle other players is wrong. It only takes a few to not keep their mouth shut.

I also bet if SE could have the warden program running they would. They have enough issues without adding more. Warden wasn't added till after anyways. So it may still be in thew works.

[raelgun]

Ok SE pays people to help(carry) people through content. Last time i checked when i get Aurum Vale on low level roulette for some new players SE pays me in myth and stuff to help/(carry) them. So we are all agreed?

Two parsers are probably not the definition of cheating. But anything that allows you to grief or question other players abilities, is probably never going to see the light of day.

Just to let you know, the battle log actually displays what people got hit by and what amount, with this alone it provides one of the many info that a parser does, how is this aspect any different ?
It also lets you know what they were doing or were hitting too.
The tool to observe other players is in the battle log, should SE remove that tab entirely too ?

[ispano]

So you'd rather a game where people don't help anyone except the raider elite and everyone else gets frustrated, quits and the game dies out due to limited consumers? Sorry if I disagree with you and think HELPING people rather then kicking them is the better option.

So you'd sit and wipe, over and over, with someone who refuses to improve? Or in a group where the DPS isn't up to par but you don't know WHICH one it is? And if you happen to say anything at all about the DPS being too low, not even to one specific person, you get your head chewed off?

Also, please tell me what you plan to do when addons get implemented and someone builds a parser with that system. And before you say SE won't allow, it, they've already said addons will have access to damage data and other such information that's exposed to the client.

Ok SE pays people to help(carry) people through content. Last time i checked when i get Aurum Vale on low level roulette for some new players SE pays me in myth and stuff to help/(carry) them. So we are all agreed?

Two parsers are probably not the definition of cheating. But anything that allows you to grief or question other players abilities, is probably never going to see the light of day. Fight club rules aside people can't keep there mouth shut. A wipe on Ifrit HM and the tank starts spewing numbers. "no ones above 16" " What the hell are you all doing, I am above half of you." Was the group bad yes. No amount of healing or tanking is going to carry a group that can't get nails down. But using a TOOL to belittle other players is wrong. It only takes a few to not keep their mouth shut.

I also bet if SE could have the warden program running they would. They have enough issues without adding more. Warden wasn't added till after anyways. So it may still be in thew works.

First, read my reply above. Second, I've played games that have addon support and DPS meters and the such right in the client. I play games heavily, it's just what I enjoy doing. And, yes, some people do get harassed over it, but it's also not the norm.

So you'd rather a game where people don't help anyone except the raider elite and everyone else gets frustrated, quits and the game dies out due to limited consumers? Sorry if I disagree with you and think HELPING people rather then kicking them is the better option.

If someone in your group is holding the group back, and refuses to step up and do better, you're not helping them by sitting there and wiping with them and not removing them. They refuse to learn, they need to understand they are then not welcome. If you can't accept that, then you may very well be HURTING some groups.

[Elven]

Only impatient players with no intention of teaching others over exaggerate wipes meanwhile tanks and healers get off scot free with all this business of dps and parsers.

[Tashigi]

Only impatient players with no intention of teaching others over exaggerate wipes meanwhile tanks and healers get off scot free with all this business of dps and parsers.

You can spot a bad healer or tank miles away.
DPS? Not as easy; but some people can spot them easily if they've played said DPS class themselves.

[Elven]

You can spot a bad healer or tank miles away.
DPS? Not as easy; but some people can spot them easily if they've played said DPS class themselves.

Yup you can spot a bad dps straight away if even the simplest mobs take ages to kill of which point people notice that some players suddenly experience the 9000 error.

[RaineMagus]

Only impatient players with no intention of teaching others over exaggerate wipes meanwhile tanks and healers get off scot free with all this business of dps and parsers.

I actually disagree. Tanks, healers, and DPS are very connected. Perhaps not in the desire to monitor the damage of the tank, or healing potency of the healer, yet it's strongly related none-the-less.

As an example: A "good" DPS can make an under-geared tank, or fresh tank, look like a terrible-tank. Despite that this player is trying their honest-to-goodness-best (eg, a fresh level 50 PLD trying to hold threat off an iLvl 110 BLM doing triple+ flare). Players glancing simply at the direction and target of mobs, and with no understanding of how gear level difference or damage effects enmity, tend to assume that player is simply TRASH.

As another example: In a low-damage party where the mobs aren't going down fast enough, and the tank runs out of cooldowns.. Where the tank makes the assumption that his or her party can handle xxx mass mob based on their HP / a quick gear inspection ... party wipes.

--Who's the first person to get blamed? Usually the tank or healer. EVEN IF they played well. People start chucking things out there like "If you can't tank it, DON'T PULL IT!".

Conversely, maybe people blame the DPS even though everyone's damage was 'fine', and it actually "is" the tank or the healer who's the issue.


Point being that if one person performs poorly and you have no idea whom, it can look like anyone (role independent). Parties are a strongly collective effort where no single role is trivial, and where the problem isn't always obvious / can be assumed to be pretty much anyone. That's for essentially ANY aspect of the group. Additionally someone is always going to be blamed, even if it's just by assumption (that's just human nature sadly).


I'm not going to advocate parsing as I strongly respect SquareEnix's stance on third-party tools if not just for the safety of its playerbase, and I'm certainly not going to advocate people playing the blame-game. Yet I can understand why some people wish to understand what's happening in a fight, and why it's important to know.

There's already some tools ingame that give an idea of this, such as the threat-meter (which can more or less compare "relative" damage between two players of the same class). However ... you'd be surprised how few people actually know of its existence or look at it.

[Kyroc]

Just because they are against the ToS does not mean they are cheating

[Elven]

Just because they are against the ToS does not mean they are cheating

Of course not but SE clearly want those other apps off the table not necessarily parsers. It's just a shame that parsers fit in SE's ban for people that like to use them. Nothing about the use of them when you get to the crux of the argument they're not allowed bottom line.

[Krr]

Of course not but SE clearly want those other apps off the table not necessarily parsers. It's just a shame that parsers fit in SE's ban for people that like to use them. Nothing about the use of them when you get to the crux of the argument they're not allowed bottom line.

There's been a lot of off-the-record remarks over the past year about parser use that generally implies the only reason they're against the ToS is because it's costly to write an exception in the legalese, and that "parsers are illegal" is useful as a catch-all way to weed the community of players who use them in a socially-abusive fashion.

There are also dangers affiliated with third-party tools and it would be legally difficult to endorse certain tools 'officially' as ones you could use or that are safe, and it could result in exploitative behavior by any third-party tool creators who got this privilege.

It's similar to how, say, PSO2 says "No American players" in their TOS, but you can relatively freely and safely play in American server communities and pretty freely speak English as long as you aren't disrupting or abusive to the JP players. It's a quick corporate way to remove troublesome folks with minimal due process.

Of course, you should not use a third-party parser. It's against the TOS.