SE's most difinitive statement yet on parsers

[Souljacker]

Oh please act like those are easy to look through.

I think that what he was trying to express is "why" do we have battle logs? It doesn't make sense that SE would allow battle logs to exist, but NOT allow us a meaningful way to aggregate and analyze the data. The stances are contradictory and the simple solution is to just remove this data completely from the client.

SE is going to have to catch up with the rest of the modern world on this one, period. I know that there's a lot of folks in this thread who think that somehow parsers "ruin" the game - but I'll tell you what truly ruins the game: playing with other people who don't give a hoot whether they are pulling their weight because somehow actually performing the job they queued as ruins their immersion, and wipe after wipe because of it.

[ElHeggunte]

@Tiggy if it cannot be captured/processed by the player in real time as they're playing the game, it most certainly is an advantage no matter how you try to rationalize it.

Thank you Tiggy, that is exactly the point I have been making...-snip-

The two of you are giving me a rash. These are such poor arguments against parsers that I'm having a hard time thinking of words to accurately describe how ridiculous you sound.

[Parawill]

You want a parser as a convenient tool in order for you to reach the end-content asap without putting forth some work, work that you want the others to put forth but not you. That is EXACTLY the reason why parsers should be banned, people need to work and learn and reading a log IS a learning curve...or you are telling me that the game doesnt require learning ?

There is a difference between mundane, tedious and simply pointless work vs. learning. Parsers are tools for convenience. Convenience is never a bad thing. That's why we have calculators, forks, spoons, knives, toilet paper (not banana leaves), shoes, clothes, water bottles, telecommunications, internet, computers... and the list goes on.

Why don't you learn the benefits from parsing than the negatives of it? This "parser" debate is very similar to gun laws. Just cause people have access to it doesn't mean you have everyone pew-pewing the living hell out of everyone. So same goes with parsers. Just because they have parsers doesn't mean you're going to be thrown into boiling water and shamed for having horrid DPS.

*Shrug*

[Staris]

voice chat is third party program and not authorized. Please ban.
Chrome/IE/firefox/Safari is third party program, if you are reading this forum. Please Ban.

[Elven]

I think that what he was trying to express is "why" do we have battle logs? It doesn't make sense that SE would allow battle logs to exist, but NOT allow us a meaningful way to aggregate and analyze the data. The stances are contradictory and the simple solution is to just remove this data completely from the client.

SE is going to have to catch up with the rest of the modern world on this one, period. I know that there's a lot of folks in this thread who think that somehow parsers "ruin" the game - but I'll tell you what truly ruins the game: playing with other people who don't give a hoot whether they are pulling their weight because somehow actually performing the job they queued as ruins their immersion, and wipe after wipe because of it.

Because it breaks down raw data in such a way as to offer an unfair advantage like the radar giving you a 360 view without having to look in that direction.

[Elven]

The two of you are giving me a rash. These are such poor arguments against parsers that I'm having a hard time thinking of words to accurately describe how ridiculous you sound.

You haven't said anything that doesn't indicate this doesn't give any advantage of course you feel overwhelmed.

[Shougun]

That's the kind of mentality that really irks me.

Those players downing savage coil are actually putting effort. If you actually take the time to realize that they put in hours upon hours every day doing savage coil. They put that time checking and testing mechanics that need to be tackled. It's the reason why it's possible to be downed.

We weren't told what kind of gear the dev team used, the type of raiding hours they put in, and so on.

Yet you go and overshadow all that hard work people doing savage coil by mentioning "parsers". It's pretty sad from my pov that you would do that.

Hmmm? I'm confused on how I overshadowed their work. I merely used the pro of using parser as a con for non-parsing players. If you are playing better Yoshida and team will need to make content harder in order for it to be hard- I did not say its easy, or easy mode or anything of the like. Players playing better, requires harder content to be challenging, at no point did I undermine someone's work (or at least attempted to.. lol).

I was just tossing the idea that parsers create a game that needs parsers, as once the players master what would normally be unbeknownst to them then the devs need to design with this in mind- or content won't be hard enough. As this own thread touts, parsers can help you and your team play better- which then follows that devs would need to balance it from there.

[Souljacker]

Because it breaks down raw data in such a way as to offer an unfair advantage like the radar giving you a 360 view without having to look in that direction.

I don't think you understand the difference between aggregating data and cheating. Knowing that 2+2 in my log = 4 doesn't amount to cheating, and having a computer do that computation for me isn't, either. It makes me a human being who might take longer to put that figure together, but it doesn't make me a cheater.

This doesn't give me an advantage over another player as a radar app would. Having a computer calculate my 2+2 just means I arrive at an answer faster, not that I take a claim from another person that is legitimately hunting by running around the map. the two examples are so far apart on the spectrum I have to believe you are just trolling. No one can be this thick.

[Elven]

I don't think you understand the difference between aggregating data and cheating. Knowing that 2+2 in my log = 4 doesn't amount to cheating, and having a computer do that computation for me isn't, either. It makes me a human being who might take longer to put that figure together, but it doesn't make me a cheater.

This doesn't give me an advantage over another player as a radar app would. Having a computer calculate my 2+2 just means I arrive at an answer faster, not that I take a claim from another person that is legitimately hunting by running around the map. the two examples are so far apart on the spectrum I have to believe you are just trolling. No one can be this thick.

If you're not going to acknowledge Parsers read and record data for better results why bother saying anything at all.

[Tupsi]

Parsers in itself are a nonissue, but it's a 3rd party tool and is mostly used to berate people, not "help you do better" - That's why they said they're iffy on including one officially and the only one they do have is to check balance on encounters. If the "more efficient" players didn't use it to belittle the console players, I'm pretty sure SE would still turn a blind eye to it, but the more harassment that keeps happening with it the more likely SE is to say "nope no go."

So realistically, you only have the players to blame for misusing such a harmless tool.