SE's most difinitive statement yet on parsers

[Amberyl]

It's in the ToS.

I wouldn't waste your breath, Kaethra's already ignored the previous half dozen posts that stated the exact same thing.

Some children just can't handle having their toys taken away.

[Kaethra]

It's in the ToS.

Parsing log files isn't data mining. The log files aren't even in the game installation folder. They're in your documents folder. Go look for yourself. They're .txt files you can open them up in Notepad. In fact I posted some of my own in this thread and I haven't been warned or banned for it.

add in the fact Yoshi-P has said on at least two occasions (I think it was two) that they are not allowed. Even going as far at one point to tacitly admit they exist and there isn't a lot they can do about it.

I'm going to wager he was speaking about the parsers that had 'other' features involved with them. If they didn't want parsers to be allowed at all, they'd patch the game to turn off log files. Especially when they are in the SAME folder as the screenshots.

Having a discussion about it is not against the ToS and also isn't a valid way to determine if this is against the rules or not. Having a conversation isn't using third party tools to extract data from the game.

Again go look at the threads. They are posting the results of the parses. So anyone contributing has used a parser to give the information they've discussed. Its not different than saying in chat "my parser says you're underperforming."

Lack of proof is not proof of the contrary. Just because you haven't personally seen it doesn't mean it does not happen. There are over 2 million accounts in this game. Do you think you've played with enough of them to even know?

I'm not talking about lack of proof, I'm talking about calling a bluff. As in challenging the other side of the argument to prove their conviction to their own argument. So far they have lacked it. Which leaves me to believe, they don't even believe in their own arguments. Seriously, why nitpick it? Why go "ooh its against the rules, you -might- get into a tussle with a GM if they ever find out!" Instead of reporting them. I mean at this point the discussion is pointless otherwise. It hasn't gone anywhere except this loop in like 3 days.

[Shougun]

Parsing log files isn't data mining. The log files aren't even in the game installation folder. They're in your documents folder. Go look for yourself. They're .txt files you can open them up in Notepad. In fact I posted some of my own in this thread and I haven't been warned or banned for it.

The log doesn't include all the information needed for all classes (can be used for some). Also the popular parser, because it does what it needs to do to get that extra information, reads from memory, which is against the ToS - which is also why that popular app can also make a radar.. because it reads from memory.

I don't think the majority of the posts here are talking about the txt files, I'm not even sure the majority here are even aware of that option- I think most are talking about "that" famous app.

[Velox]

Although I am neither for, nor against parsing, there are some misconceptions about these facts I'd like to point out.

1. TOS says nothing specifically about Parsers

The TOS says something about third-party tools, a broad spectrum in which parsers fall under.

2.2.5 Data Mining. You may not intercept, mine or otherwise collect information from the Game using unauthorized third party software.

Square-enix has not formally authorized the use of any third party software that I know of.

The Threads listed below* are parsing threads that have not be locked, deleted, or warned.

Square-enix policy revolves around the collected evidence during in-game practices. Talking about using a parser is not the same as catching someone using a parser. Square-enix only pursues the latter.

3. The players that say that parsers are bannable are probably bluffing and thus Trolling this thread. They can prove me wrong by having those threads* actioned by reporting them. Its been 2-3 days and they haven't done it.

I already addressed the issue with regards to forum posting. As for in-game punishment, I can attest to the fact that they do suspend accounts if enough evidence arises. Although Square-enix will never share the results of any investigation directly, I was lucky enough to see the result first-hand. I had reported someone after they admitted to using a parser during a dungeon run. To be honest, I wasn't really expecting much since I knew only 3 of us were around to witness it and the likelihood of SE taking any action seemed slim. To my surprise, a thread popped up two weeks later on these forums where someone who, acting as a proxy, was pleading some case to get their friend's account back after he/she was "wrongfully banned."

Granted, if said player hadn't said anything, he/she would have gone unnoticed. However, the fact of the matter is that Square-enix will take action when warranted.

[Staris]

The crazy part is, we don't need a parser to see you are terrible.

When your threat is below someone of the same class, whom has worse gear, and using quelling. You are bad.

When you casting spells/abilities for reasons you should never have to, like blizzard 1 because your oom. We know you are bad.

When you have penta-melded gear with melds that give +0. We know you are bad.

When you can't beat turn 5 / titan / turn 6-9 /ramuh / levi. We know you (or your group) is bad.

Any wanna-be elitist that has to point to parsing data to explain you are bad (without knowing or being able to explain why). Is also bad.

Ban people who parse all you want, unfortunately you'll still be bad. I will still tell you when you are annoyingly bad (which won't be often because I avoid random people), and I won't need /have never needed a parser to do so.

[Gormogon]

You are without a doubt the least informed person I have ever talked to

Seems that's all you pro parsing people can ever resort to.

The crazy part is, we don't need a parser to see you are terrible.

Nah people really want to believe you need parsers for this.

If it wasn't for parsers we would never notice those players that disconnect constantly during fights.

[Appleh4x]

Seems that's all you pro parsing people can ever resort to.



Nah people really want to believe you need parsers for this.

If it wasn't for parsers we would never notice those players that disconnect constantly during fights.

All we can resort to? I specifically broke down why the example you gave was terrible but you just go ahead and disregard my totally relevant points, they probably went over your head anyways.

[Tiggy]

All we can resort to? I specifically broke down why the example you gave was terrible but you just go ahead and disregard my totally relevant points, they probably went over your head anyways.

This is what he does. He immediately went to say "Seems that's all you pro parsing people can ever resort to." which falls into the "You guys never get what I say anyway" type of stuff he always bring sup when you corner him with a good argument.

The crazy part is, we don't need a parser to see you are terrible.

That's not always the problem though. For example, when you're tackling turn 8 or 9 everyone in your party may look to be doing pretty well based on your hate meters. The tanks outstripping everyone nicely so they are holding hate fine, and everyone in the party is right in line with one another (exceptions going to hate reduction moves), but in the end you just aren't even coming close to the DPS check of the fight. The team sits stumped. Wondering "Why can't we beat this? Everyone's hate meters seem to be properly in line!" but once a parser gets thrown at the battle it becomes clear. Everyone in the group is equally below the thresholds required to win the battle. Everyone needs to step it up because no one is succeeding.

See the entire "threat meter" argument assumes that if you are all equal then you're all doing alright, but that's a flaw. It only works when at least 1 person is absolutely killing damage so that everyone else has a baseline amount of threat to strive for. When you all fail the entire system falls completely apart. It is a flawed method. Perfectly fine for low end content, but completely useless for end game content.

[Staris]

This is what he does. He immediately went to say "Seems that's all you pro parsing people can ever resort to." which falls into the "You guys never get what I say anyway" type of stuff he always bring sup when you corner him with a good argument.



That's not always the problem though. For example, when you're tackling turn 8 or 9 everyone in your party may look to be doing pretty well based on your hate meters. The tanks outstripping everyone nicely so they are holding hate fine, and everyone in the party is right in line with one another (exceptions going to hate reduction moves), but in the end you just aren't even coming close to the DPS check of the fight. The team sits stumped. Wondering "Why can't we beat this? Everyone's hate meters seem to be properly in line!" but once a parser gets thrown at the battle it becomes clear. Everyone in the group is equally below the thresholds required to win the battle. Everyone needs to step it up because no one is succeeding.

See the entire "threat meter" argument assumes that if you are all equal then you're all doing alright, but that's a flaw. It only works when at least 1 person is absolutely killing damage so that everyone else has a baseline amount of threat to strive for. When you all fail the entire system falls completely apart. It is a flawed method. Perfectly fine for low end content, but completely useless for end game content.

Think you missed my point completely.

I don't need a parser to figure out an ideal rotation. To test it sure it is helpful, but I'm confident enough in myself (and my team) to be able to figure it out with just the combat log and theory. We have also never hit a dps check in our progression in this entire game. I don't even know what the enrages look like on turn 6-9. Do turn 6 and 7 even have hard enrages?

Now when we pug someone for some primal or ST or something, this is when we can easily judge based on abiltiies cast/threat/ect

It's really not that hard to tell when someone is terrible.

Someone doing 5% worse may be impossible to tell.... But people do far far worse than you could imagine. I have always called people out when it annoys me enough, and I have not needed, will never need a parser to do so.

Anything someone can do with a 3rd party parser, a person can do with a calculator and a pad of paper and the combat log. It just takes more time/effort.

This whole argument is just bad players hating on other bad player for using tools they are too lazy to use. Its funny.

[Gormogon]

I specifically broke down

because you can't proc your buffs on mobs...right you sure told me. Especially when I mentioned it before that in regards to testing w/o buffs.

Again you've proven to try real real hard to justify your pro parser argument and there's no shame on it but seriously stop trying so hard to justify it and say you desire your QoL.