I would like "Killer" traits return

[Jasiwel]

^I thought as much. It's hard to tell in debate threads like these.

How would disabling part of only a certain small percentage of jobs' range of use in a fight make that fight "harder"? Further, not being able to use the full extent of your job as the situation would normally allow simply due to your particular attack type suddenly being invalidated is far from a non-issue.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. It looks like you're agreeing and disagreeing at the same time. MY argument is for the Elemental Wheel to actually have substance and reason for existence. As it stands, elements are pointless. For example, who the hell goes out of their way to buy Elemental Resistance equipment? It serves a negligible purpose. Sure, it's a perk if it's convenient and you have no better equipment, but what difference does it really make? A negligible difference.

My response about "disabling part of only a certain small percentage of a jobs' range" is in response to those saying it would break a job's existence. Adding Killer Traits and the Elemental Wheel won't do any of that. People aren't going to suddenly drop using WHM and all the time they spent building it up because Stone is less effective against X mob. You're partially right in that it won't make a fight harder, but my response is even more that there's no reason to use "WHM CANT STONE DURING TITANEX" as an argument.

When I started to play THM to be a BLM, I thought elemental affinity would mean something in my attacks. When I found out otherwise, I was REALLY bummed out. Sure, the rotation is complex and requires skill to use optimally, but it does get boring and redundant after a while. While this changes a lot when I hit Lvl.50, it's still bothersome that it makes no difference if I know nothing about my target other than that they do X AoE ability that I have to dodge. It makes a lot of enemies feel like damage sponges, especially as BLM.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm not sure what you're saying here. It looks like you're agreeing and disagreeing at the same time.

I'll try to be more clear then. I believe that elements differentiating only for element's sake (i.e. by name) have no real advantage. If all elements differentiate within a shared range of under-mechanics, then I believe the elemental wheel has a chance to work. Where one type beats another as a matter of general law, rather than through the particular undermechanics (preferably also with the possibility to still use an element against its resistant (and/or own) type by combination with other elements), I find that gameplay is only simplified and offset, and muddied in endgame content, even if a bit more interesting during leveling processes (unless that process too, is taken with full seriousness/opportunism/efficiency-seeking/etc.).

I like a system in which Fire still works against Ifrit, earth against Titan, and wind against Garuda -- but with dependency on how you use it, and possibly with risk even of absorption at times.

While this changes a lot when I hit Lvl.50, it's still bothersome that it makes no difference if I know nothing about my target other than that they do X AoE ability that I have to dodge. It makes a lot of enemies feel like damage sponges, especially as BLM.

This is sadly the case for all classes, even if a bit more noticeable on a turret class like BLM. Which is partly why I'm personally not putting much stock into DoM system revisions (elemental wheel) without melee and tank interactions also being looked into. That said, I don't think any of that will happen.

[DakkonBriefs]

I would also like the "killer" traits and skills like Ancient Circle/Warding Circle/Holy Circle etc. It would be a nice addition for the expansion. If they bring back the elemental wheel for the expansion aswell... that would be goodtimes

[Shurrikhan]

Regardless of what they did in FFXI, what would you all hope they could do in FFXIV if added? And how would these abilities be granted, shared v. isolated, etc.? And are fear procs and slightly higher damage or effect chances versus certain mob types really going to make gameplay more interesting?

[Airal]

Makes sense that they would give an option for you to actually be able to make use of it then. Still doesn't seem like it would be a worthy addition to our current state of the game, however. Balance has been mentioned multiple times and that's the reason it probably won't be coming in the form of damage boosts or reductions.

[Gormogon]

Makes sense that they would give an option for you to actually be able to make use of it then. Still doesn't seem like it would be a worthy addition to our current state of the game, however. Balance has been mentioned multiple times and that's the reason it probably won't be coming in the form of damage boosts or reductions.

Only way to have a balanced yet overpowered "Killer" trait so that players wont want to flock all over them and to allow for balance and diversity is by having it be a low proc that would be even lower than the current atma drop rate.

I could get behind these traits being implemented. There are a ton of ways they could make it balanced. Materia, potions, stats on accessories (just make sure they're not job-locked). If they ever get some kind of class-neutral talent system going (which would also be cool), it'd fit well there.

I could also see them making this part of a new tank or healer's minor mitigation toolkit. Various killer traits as a tank levels up, that activate about as often, and about as effectively, as block or parry, and throw in an ability that buffs the % for 20 seconds. Or a spell a healer can toss on a player/whole party that averages out to be Eye for an Eye/Sacred Soil-ish.

Yeah there's many ways to go about it. Only issue is trying to please the most amount of players with such a choice that wont have a sort of major impact in the game by it's implementation.

[Shurrikhan]

Only way to have a balanced yet overpowered "Killer" trait so that players wont want to flock all over them and to allow for balance and diversity is by having it be a low proc that would be even lower than the current atma drop rate.

But at that point it would feel like winning/surviving a fight, or at least some small part of it, by pure RNG.

Yeah there's many ways to go about it. Only issue is trying to please the most amount of players with such a choice that wont have a sort of major impact in the game by it's implementation.

If it's going to be a minor change, why spend the time to develop it?

One way to keep it balanced, non-situational (using this only for dragon/golem/plantling/etc. fights) is to simply give it higher-order bonuses that are, on average, level with basic stats (both primary and secondary). For example, if you had Materia of the Dragonblood, it could give bonus attack power based on damage recently dealt. It's a reliable damage bonus that is best used by classes with high burst, favoring Bard and especially Dragoon, but certainly usable by others. Atop that it has a small typal bonus in two directions, both against Dragonkin and against the 'prey' of Dragonkin.

Others could do much more intricate things, as long as they do not hugely increase dps or survivability beyond the capabilities of secondary stats.

[Gormogon]

If it's going to be a minor change, why spend the time to develop it?

The very short answer is gimmick. Like 2hr.

[Shurrikhan]

The very short answer is gimmick. Like 2hr.

I guess this may just be a difference in personal preference between us then. When something's added, I like for it to be more than a gimmick. I want it to come into consideration when I consider the purpose, capabilities, and dynamics of my build (class, job, gear, materia, these traits, etc.). If it doesn't come to the point where I can say "I am... <some new or newly nuanced identity of the more general role>", I really don't care for some random shiny thing going off occasionally outside of my control.

[Bixby]

I could get behind these traits being implemented. There are a ton of ways they could make it balanced. Materia, potions, stats on accessories (just make sure they're not job-locked). If they ever get some kind of class-neutral talent system going (which would also be cool), it'd fit well there.

I could also see them making this part of a new tank or healer's minor mitigation toolkit. Various killer traits as a tank levels up, that activate about as often, and about as effectively, as block or parry, and throw in an ability that buffs the % for 20 seconds. Or a spell a healer can toss on a player/whole party that averages out to be Eye for an Eye/Sacred Soil-ish.