So resetting's against the rules now?

[UltimateAoe2]

Snipping due to characters...

You are going way too far with this.

[kidvideo]

When this happens the monster runs back to its starting point, becomes temporarily invulnerable, and once it reaches its starting point it recovers to 100% HP. If it's a hunt mark or a FATE monster, any contribution points are also reset at this time.

Jeeze, I've been doing this unintentionally... if a fate is kicking my egi's butt, if my DF queue pops, or those damn fates with a small radius, kite too wide & my level sync pops. I'm looking at you Steropes... get it? "Looking".

[Marxam]

There's no such thing as an "early pull." This was developed as a thought by the people. It is not a real thing. If my group is there, I have no reason to wait, and it's not an early pull for my group. Not my fault people didn't react fast enough. Say what you will, but I'm not a people pleaser, and it's not my problem.

It's common courtesy. On my server it's an unwritten rule that for A's, the mark founder must state a "pull time" or it will be pulled roughly one hour eorzean time of it being found or until it starts disappearing. Once a pull time is stated people must wait until then to pull. Any earlier is considered an "early pull" and will most likely be subjected to the fantastic conversation posted in the OP. Those are the basis on which I determine if I should reset the mark. I'm not holding you to what you want to do with a mark but most people have enough crap to deal with when it comes to the hunts.

[Mcshiggs]

This implies your reason for pulling was motivated by a singular person, one who's only purpose was fufillment of the self. This is not the case, in any scenario. :P

The person not there that wants the rewards, they are the greedy one. You reset it for them. You helped the greedy one with your reset, therefore the reset came about because of greed. I am saying the person that sits in town and waits for callouts and expects others to reset for them is in it only for themselves and the rewards, you may be helping the team, but your team or LS seems to be full of greedy folks expecting you to break the rules so they can benefit from it.

That doesn't change the fact that throwing the term "douchebag" at people that are making an effort (albeit slightly misguided) to help people make it to the mark is going a little far. o.o

I use the term "douchebag" because the only other word that could even come close would be calling them a tool, but a tool implies it has some sort of use, and I have no use for these type of people, so I go with douchebag.

[Brine_Gildchaff]

Jeeze, I've been doing this unintentionally... if a fate is kicking my egi's butt, if my DF queue pops, or those damn fates with a small radius, kite too wide & my level sync pops. I'm looking at you Steropes... get it? "Looking".

No, I think you're fine. If I remember right, the way FATEs are coded, if you grab a DF queue or level desyncs, it counts as setting your enmity to zero, so Steropes or whoever you're fighting will just spin around to glare at whoever's #2 on the enmity list. And there's no problem with retreating from a FATE that you're getting annihilated on. The problem here is someone deliberately running up to an elite mark that's already being fought and deliberately resetting it. Since it causes stress and wipes out the contribution from whoever was already fighting it, it's considered harassment to do it.

[Enkrateia]

Greetings, all!

I was quite excited to see a rules discussion here, since it gives me the opportunity to join in and hopefully clarify our policies. The GMs do their best in the game to explain policies; however, space constraints (typing large amounts of text into the chat system) can sometimes cause misinterpretations. Hopefully a forum post, where a larger amount of text and be read easier and digested over time, will provide a clearer view of these types of violations.

To begin, at its most basic level, resetting hunt marks can be considered a grief tactics violation. This post will be discussing grief tactics in general as a violation of the rules, and that general discussion would apply to this particular topic, as well as any number of related topics (MPK, zone disruption, etc.). If you would like a point of reference for this rule, you can find it under the FINAL FANTASY XIV User Agreement, specifically section 3.2:

Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players, including the disruption of Square Enix's computers and servers.

When discussing grief tactics, there is one important detail that is needed to determine that an action was a violation of the user agreement. That detail is the intent of the customer as determined by a GM. Because of this, while any suspected grief tactics violation can (and should) be reported to a GM, only after a GM completes their investigation will a decision be made about if there was a violation.

The intent of the customer is important, since this determines if they are trying to disrupt the game play of other customers, or just trying to play the game. To use an example, this could be best represented in the potential conflict between a customer that needs to defeat certain monsters for a quest and another customer who is defeating the same monsters for an item drop. Each customer may feel the other is interfering with their game experience, although that interference is not their intent. Of course, there are a number of additional factors that could come into play, and change this from an innocent conflict to a grief tactics violation.

This is why a GM investigation is critical, and why the final decision on the violation rests on GM discretion. The GM will look at all of the information available, measure the plausibility of the stated intent, and make a decision about if a violation occurred. This allows the GM to make a decision based on customer activity instead of just what they state their intent is. Using the above example, the farmer may say they are just farming, but the GM's investigation may show they would follow the person trying to complete the quest and would kill enemies before they could get credit.

I would like to note, before closing, that hypothetical situations are usually something I do not like to use, since they tend to simplify a situation to give a certain bias or justification. This example is no different, and should not be used as justification for that type of behaviour or assumption of another customer's guilt. Every situation is unique, and only through a GM investigation can the full situation be reviewed and a final determination be made.

In closing, grief tactics concerns should be reported to a GM when possible. To assist in these investigations, knowing the name of the person who is suspected of violating the rules is immensely helpful, since it allows us to focus our investigation. Without a GM investigation, calling out other customers for perceived violations does more harm to the community than good, since it creates a negative atmosphere. Should a violation be found, we will issue the appropriate account actions, based on the violation, prior violations, and our current policies. One note that is always important here is that we do not discuss the those results of investigations, since they reveal details about another customer's account.

If there are questions about this, I will be monitoring the thread to try to help provide additional clarifications.

LGM Enkrateia

[UltimateAoe2]

This still brings up my questions:

What if someone is trying to solo the NM? We're not allowed to interfere if that's the case still? This has happened numerous times, sadly. Even with the B ranks being solo'd, and A ranks being duo'd/partied.

[Ashkendor]

This still brings up my questions:

What if someone is trying to solo the NM? We're not allowed to interfere if that's the case still? This has happened numerous times, sadly. Even with the B ranks being solo'd, and A ranks being duo'd/partied.

Why would the number of people present change whether or not what you're doing is interfering with their gameplay? If anything, it magnifies it. If someone's soloing a B rank and has it at half, they will still likely get full credit if a few people show up and zerg it down. If it's reset and then zerged, they mayaswell just tag it and walk off cause they won't get more than 1 seal. B ranks aren't meant for an entire server to kill, nor are A ranks. They're light party and full party content, respectively. Most people choose to network over hunt LS's and share locations, but if someone doesn't want to do that there's no reason they should be forced to. *shrugs*

Like I said, hunts are always going to have somewhat of a competitive element to them. You can't hold every B rank until the entire server shows up. But if you miss one there's no reason to interfere with someone else's fight, and there's no need to throw a fit on shout. Just shrug and go find another mark.

[ispano]

This still brings up my questions:

What if someone is trying to solo the NM? We're not allowed to interfere if that's the case still? This has happened numerous times, sadly. Even with the B ranks being solo'd, and A ranks being duo'd/partied.

Honestly, those two situations you described are sort of the intention of those two ranks. However, typically if you pass by and join in... and I mean join in, not shout to the zone and entire LS', there isn't a problem. There's a difference in joining in and resetting.

[Alistaire]

Always was against ToS, under disruption. How are you to know that that time you're giving to the whole server might or might not inconvenience people trying to finish a mob off before they have to go? Or in general, just lengthening the process.

It's like jaywalking though, or maybe that's a bad comparison, idk. If everyone around agrees to reset a mob nobody's gonna miss out. But if someone complains it's a valid complaint. Don't mess with game content other people are doing.

TBH they should just make it so the mobs bounce off their boundary without their HP resetting; problem fixed.

This still brings up my questions:

What if someone is trying to solo the NM? We're not allowed to interfere if that's the case still? This has happened numerous times, sadly. Even with the B ranks being solo'd, and A ranks being duo'd/partied.

You're not interfering by fighting alongside whoever. You're only interfering if you negate their progress by resetting it on purpose. If you do that to a person who happens to need to go in a few minutes you have potentially made them lose out.