So resetting's against the rules now?

[Teirshin]

As for resetting, like I said, if the game allows it, there's no rule against it.

GM seems to disagree with your "logic" there.....

Allow me to address this, since it became a bit of a topic for discussion.

Both of these incidents could be reported for a grief tactics violation, and a GM would investigate. Despite the intent to make sure more people could participate in the latter example, a GM could still determine this to be a violation of the rules, since you are also intending to impact the progress made by others who may be fighting the hunt mark. The GM will determine the final intent of the action that was taken. If this was determined to be a violation, regardless of one's stated intent, I would expect any GM to issue an account action against the person who committed the grief tactics violation.

[JustPlainLucas]

GM seems to disagree with your "logic" there.....

And I disagree with the GM. Penalizing players for doing things that the game allows is simply wrong. If you don't want players resetting mobs, you simply take away the mobs' zones. The reason why people reset is because they want their team to be there for the kill, just as with everyone who's already there. Resets keep happening because A) they're claimable by everyone and B) don't have nearly enough HP for everyone to attack it and get full credit. Considering people spend hours upon hours doing these hunts, many not getting full credit or even making it to the mob before it dies, people are having to do what they can to adapt to a broken system until SE decides to fix it.

[Alukah]

And I disagree with the GM. Penalizing players for doing things that the game allows is simply wrong. If you don't want players resetting mobs, you simply take away the mobs' zones. The reason why people reset is because they want their team to be there for the kill, just as with everyone who's already there. Resets keep happening because A) they're claimable by everyone and B) don't have nearly enough HP for everyone to attack it and get full credit. Considering people spend hours upon hours doing these hunts, many not getting full credit or even making it to the mob before it dies, people are having to do what they can to adapt to a broken system until SE decides to fix it.

Whether you agree or disagree about the rule it doesn't mean "there is no rule", not everyone is supposed to like the rules, but you have to follow them anyways.

[Yukiko]

I think its a matter of respect.

reseting shows no respect for those who already fighting. (they are fighting because its a quest? daily, weekly?)
pulling shows no respect to those who are waiting. (they are waiting because any reasons? door, phone?)

Either way, best solution is to report and a GM needs to look into it because YOU can not tell how long they were waiting or for what reason, same as YOU can not tell if they have a quest or not...
At least we show them with reporting that they ned to fix the system and where the problems are!

[Thayos]

The real fix to this dilemma (for now) is to simply be considerate toward your fellow gamers.

If you're all alone (or with a couple friends) and nobody's coming, go ahead and pull. If you're at an elite mark with a group and lots of other people are clearly on the way, show some courtesy and wait a bit before pulling.

Rather than arguing about which type of griefing has the moral high ground, people should just respect each other and be considerate. Don't be selfish, and most of this problem solves itself.

[ispano]

The real fix to this dilemma (for now) is to simply be considerate toward your fellow gamers.

If you're all alone (or with a couple friends) and nobody's coming, go ahead and pull. If you're at an elite mark with a group and lots of other people are clearly on the way, show some courtesy and wait a bit before pulling.

Rather than arguing about which type of griefing has the moral high ground, people should just respect each other and be considerate. Don't be selfish, and most of this problem solves itself.

But you don't get it. What you're saying about being considerate, goes AGAINST how the system is supposed to work. People being "considerate" is why the system isn't working properly in the first place. The funny part to me, is people wanted open world content like this. Yet many of them, back when they asked, didn't truly understand that THIS is what would happen.

The system was designed to work with smaller groups, even solo players for B ranks. And at least one reason for that is it's far too expensive to design servers around the load the players are placing on them. Hence the issues with vanishing and such. There ARE solutions to allow that many people in one spot, but I can bet many players would not like it. Imagine if EVE's TIDI was implemented here, how many players do you think would like it? Since it would affect the entire zone mind you.

Not to mention, when you say don't be selfish, it goes both ways. Saying people should be considerate and wait, is selfish of you.

It's like using a product in a way it wasn't intended to be used, then expecting to still get support for it. No, you did it "wrong" so you deal with the consequences, not the people who use it right. Because doing it wrong here, is actually affecting those who choose to do it right.

[Mcshiggs]

Rather than arguing about which type of griefing has the moral high ground, people should just respect each other and be considerate. Don't be selfish, and most of this problem solves itself.

I'm still waiting to see a GM say that not waiting for the sheep mob to zerg the mark is griefing. It is only griefing in the minds of people like you, not in the ToS, you know the rules you agree to when you start playing.

[Thayos]

Still not the same.

You're being way too literal.

You seemed to say that something can't be called "griefing" unless there's a rule in place to say it is. I'm saying that's a load of crap.

[ispano]

You're being way too literal.

You seemed to say that something can't be called "griefing" unless there's a rule in place to say it is. I'm saying that's a load of crap.

Yet i'm not. If the person takes the cashier in my example, are they griefing you? You were just standing there, never went up to the cashier or anything. Same thing with the mob, you were standing around and not claiming it. No griefing is involved. The fault lies with you and you alone for waiting.

[Enkrateia]

I'm still waiting to see a GM say that not waiting for the sheep mob to zerg the mark is griefing. It is only griefing in the minds of people like you, not in the ToS, you know the rules you agree to when you start playing.

In general, any monster in the world that is able to be attacked can be attacked at any time. There is no user agreement section that details the proper time to wait before attacking a hunt mark, at this time. That being said, actions determined to be taken with the intent of disrupting the game play of others can be reported as a grief tactic. This disruption applies to the people actually at the hunt mark, and convoluting the "disruption" to apply because not enough people were present for you to get full credit misses the actual impact of the disruption. And because nothing is black and white, this does not mean that pulling the hunt mark will not result in a grief tactics violation. The circumstances that would cause it are rarer, but not impossible. A GM would make that determination after investigating a report on potential grief tactics.

As in several of my posts, as a player, I appreciate the players who can get people to wait a bit to give more people a chance to participate. However, unless the hunt mark is pulled in a manner that a GM finds to be intentionally disruptive, waiting is a social behaviour, not an edict within the rules.