Why are Healers allowed to be insanely overpowered?

[Hailie]

would gladly welcome that, would rather have a fight to be 2mins instead of 10mins of pointless deadlock. death actually matters and people would be more careful if there are no healers backing them up.

Really? Trust people to *play more careful* <~~ in FL? So instead of actually working together as a team in FL to focus down healers, you would rather have them removed to make things easier for you? I Highly doubt they would get rid of healers that would be unfair. Maybe people should stop running around like chickens with their heads cut off doing what ever they want and actually learn to play together as a team.

[Atreus]

It would just be nice if a single good DPS held at least as much weight in a fight as a single good healer, you know? Maybe that would ruin the delicate balance and throw healers out of Frontlines entirely, perhaps, possibly, I don't know. All I know is that spending the entire match wailing on a team with a mere three healers and not making any headway is not much in the way of fun:

Definitely get what you're saying, but there comes a point in skill as DPS (and tanks) that no matter how good the healer is, they will die. Balance comes when people are playing at their peak and have alternative jobs to switch to if they must. Your screenshot is kind of testament to that. You obviously blew away the majority of the other DPS. Had you been with others like you, 4+ healers really starts to look like a joke to deal with. Regardless, sometimes it isn't about killing the healer in a quick, perfect burst. Burn their resources and cooldowns before your healers have to burn theirs, and the kills will come.

The problem, as you said in different words, is DPS are too lazy/too stupid to maximize their classes and plan their approaches (and also level other classes).

[Gor]

The problem, as you said in different words, is DPS are too lazy/too stupid to maximize their classes and plan their approaches

^ this. i see alot of people who just dinged 50, still in quest gear and only parts of their 50 job gear, or didn't even bother to get at least ilvl 80 gear, or come in with ilvl 70 PVP gear into FL expecting a carry. or tanks that gear and spec vit. or goons who DR out stuns because they want to dragonspine dive the healer to death before the tank even has a chance to reach the healer. you have enough of those kinds of tards on your team you're not going to put a dent in any geared healer with even a tiny bit of a clue how to play the class no matter how many of them are on it.

[Krisom]

Sorry I haven't read all the replies but the reason why Healers may seem to be overpowered is because the Frontlines usually consists of random people with little communication. This gives the illusion that healers are extremely powerful but really a few selected people with good coordination with their damage and crowd control should be able to take out a healer with little problem unless they're being outplayed by the opposing team or even the healer him/herself.

I'll admit I've only played a few Wolves Den and Frontlines but from my little experience a healer only has the upper hand when the opposite team is nonorganized and are randomly throwing abilities out the window.

[RavenGrey]

It would just be nice if a single good DPS held at least as much weight in a fight as a single good healer, you know?

Except, healers are easy to shut down by a single DPS already. Any attack on them essentially prevents a cast. Being able to kill them right away too would really remove any purpose in even having them.

As a DRG, healers do drive me crazy sometimes, but I think it's needed. If healers become wet paper bags, every engagement will go the same way - healers (if any) drop in 5 seconds and then its just a big dps check. If I want that, I'll go smack a dummy. Healers are the only jobs at the moment that actually push strategy in Frontlines and create intense engagements, so let's not kill that please.

[Divinemight]

The problem, as you said in different words, is DPS are too lazy/too stupid to maximize their classes and plan their approaches (and also level other classes).

Yes, there are a lot of players who doesn't understand their own job, no doubt of it. Healers are fine by itself, indeed. They need such survival ability in Wolf Den, I also agree. This is why that I bidding when they adjust Scholar in 2.35, they won't touch anything but tone down rune 2 and cleric stance as sub action.

Yet, you have to admit that skill floor for FF14 Healers are much lower, average players can do much better on healer roles than dps roles. Also, JP recently has a developed a strategy for premade party of White Mage x 4, scholar x 2, summoner x1 and black Mage x 1. With this formation, all this party need to do is Zerging between outpost and nodes.

You can't beat them in capture the flag, because of 4 whims at flag zone with holy spam. Even you manage to kill one of them with greatest teamwork you can show, they still have a lot of instant Rez to spam. Not sure if you notice, the healing potency is much higher than dps potency at ilvl80. Monk's ramping time is too long, drg has restricted directional requirement, bard need to be with in 15 yards for best range attack potency, balm requires long set up time. How effective is smn's dots against this setup. The only chance is you throw in 2 parties to over run them, but that is pretty much mean you are throwing away your game.

There is not a learn to play issue but issue of job stacking. What is your resolution for this? I don't want to nerd healer' survival, so may be put back role restriction? Que will be horrible, especially for Primal Malestorm.

I am not ranting, just point out the obvious and I would like to hear about your resolution for this type of healer stacking tactic.

[Kinseykinz]

Yet, you have to admit that skill floor for FF14 Healers are much lower, average players can do much better on healer roles than dps roles. Also, JP recently has a developed a strategy for premade party of White Mage x 4, scholar x 2, summoner x1 and black Mage x 1. With this formation, all this party need to do is Zerging between outpost and nodes.

You can't beat them in capture the flag, because of 4 whims at flag zone with holy spam. Even you manage to kill one of them with greatest teamwork you can show, they still have a lot of instant Rez to spam. Not sure if you notice, the healing potency is much higher than dps potency at ilvl80.
There is not a learn to play issue but issue of job stacking. What is your resolution for this? I don't want to nerd healer' survival, so may be put back role restriction? Que will be horrible, especially for Primal Malestorm.

I am not ranting, just point out the obvious and I would like to hear about your resolution for this type of healer stacking tactic.

okay....buuuuut: What happens when this JA premade faces another JA premade of the same type? I'm assuming it's either a stalemate or loss for both teams (they spend too much time fighting each other and 3rd team on the map cleans up). Because 6xhealers on one team (which I saw exactly once on our data center btw) is gimping your DPS by a landslide....as is carrying that many casters tbh (they can be interrupted by sneezes). So it won't take long for people to come up with a team composition, that can smite this one (and if they can't do that strategies that minimize this teams effectiveness indirectly which forces people to stop stacking)
For example-
It'd take this team forever and a day to kill the nodes- so other, more DPS oriented teams would win the nodes/more nodes typically.

Nor can they hold ALL the flags at the same time, as this setup works for 'holding' and not as well for 'on the move'/claiming. So either teams would learn to 'let them have it' and ignore the one flag this team is dead set on guarding or if this Healer team keeps moving flag-to-flag, just picking up the ones they left after they leave. (so basically still ignoring them). Either way, sooner or later, this team will get bored, and separate ....then they can be picked off. Also, in both cases, as long as the opposing teams keep fighting, they will be building LB's that will squash this squishy composition.


So limiting how many healers on one team really doesn't solve anything....and further breaks frontline queues. People think they wait long now on our Data center as Maelstrom....imagine if the queues ALSO had to match party role compositions evenly across the 3 nations. So, just for this alone, I think it's worth dealing with the 'risk' of facing a '4x healer+ team' in any given match. (I'd rather faster queue times, than set party comps).

As to nerfing healers: Well, for starters, this isn't the only PvP content in game. And in wolves den, a Healer needs to survive being hitx3. And even then, with all the skills they gave us, and are supposed immortalness, this is a HARD task, not for the feint of heart. (I know, I spent my first 19 Ranks of PvP pugging wolves den....as healer, every match). In frontlines, it really isn't that hard to kill a healer....it's just most dps/tanks don't know what to do to stop them. Really, it would behoove everyone, regardless of what their 'main' role is in frontlines typically, to spend about 10 matches as a healer. I can promise, if you heal a couple matches you will start to see how vulnerable they can be/learn 'OH, so this is how my class can effectively kill a healer!' and once you switch back, be far more effective at your chosen role. (this is not me saying your bad at your role/healing...but rather, seeing the battle through the eyes of a healer, will teach you what they are weak in/what skills that once blown=they are easy to melt).

Lastly: Most healers simply don't die NOT because they heal better than DD's dd...nor that they can heal each other...it has far more to do with how DD's try to handle them (basically they try to zerg them the same way as a PvE mob and they fail miserably and then get all 'healers are OP!' mad...mostly because they didn't think it through onto what a healers strengths/weaknesses are.) Seriously, NEVER open your biggest, baddest skills on a Healer that is likely fully buffed/all actions recharged. Wittle them down first...force Cooldowns to be blown....wait until you see attunement/bene/Lustrates x3-6ish go of THEN, then zerg. Also, just because you're all supposed to 'focus Target 1' atm, doesn't mean people shouldn't still be applying some pressure/annoying the other healers/fairys. (I always sic my pet on the non-targeted healer for example...or if not against a big healer threat, I sic my pet on whatever is annoying my teams healers).

Now all that said: Yes, I'm sure there will be minor adjustments made to each job in Frontlines to help balance the battles a bit. And maybe, it would be more productive if instead of the 'Healers are OP!' mantra and whine people have adopted, they instead come up with specifics that they feel their desired role is missing when facing a healer challenge. Because the real solution might not be nerfing healers, but rather tweaking other roles PvP skills/potency etc to give them a slightly better chance when facing a healer wall.\

EDIT:

Personally, I think they need to adjust tanks PvP skills to make them a 'healers bane' For example make provoke (a nigh on useless skill for tanks atm) FORCE a target to lock onto you, and only you, and only able to perform actions on you (not even on themselves). This would further give tanks a 'support' CC place in PvP, make teams appreciate/fear them more, and also while the skill could shut down a healer for a bit, it could also be used against other roles as needed. Just this simple little change, could be all the game needs to lower DPS/tank frustrations when facing large-healer teams in PvP. Hell, I think would just be awesome if 'Provoke' worked like 'Moogle Go Round' or if tanks got a 'Charm' effect-skill they could use in PvP, it'd also make things more interesting/make tanks more valuable (charm mid could be hilarious...omg the giggles). My point: Maybe giving tank roles just 1 adjustment, could make everything okay.

[Atreus]

snip

I don't disagree with you on any front. You kind of repeated something I already said though. Yeah, it takes more to maximize DPS than it does healer. But then as I also said, balance comes when everyone's playing at their peak. It isn't a reason to nerf anything.

Anything that can be done to you, you can also do to them. You don't need a party of 8 healers, but a solid group has three healers. More than that is 100% unnecessary and gives a false sense of security. A two-healer group is passable but dangerous. Most other content requires at least two healers anyway, so I dunno why anyone would expect yet another team-based game to be any different.

As for countering the JP premade... well.... another premade, sad to say. That group will stack on a base and Holy spam PUGs to the next dimension. Buuuut they're all casters. I'd probably tell the two bards I usually run with to spam Wide Volley on them while the rest of us went to town on targets. We usually have a monk that does some good interrupt work periodically too. Could always just stay out of that group's way though. A group like that will never be able to be in two places at once.

[Sygmaelle]

As a DRG, healers do drive me crazy sometimes

Its normal we re not the anti heal class. Monks and summoners are but everyone want to be them. Dragoons shine at absolutely destroyin bards and black mages and then assist by debuffin target for your ranged and slowin others. I think DDs just have the misconception of beein just dds.

That and tunnel vision. I mean if you go on a healer one on one at the very first engagement you should KNOW that he got absolutely everything up to simply laugh at you. Then again you can spot the ones that are not played in a good way to kill them but still ...

Yeah, it takes more to maximize DPS than it does healer

Nope, playin healer is no matter what the most complicated job in PvP because its all about kittin right and castin meanwhile + usin all your tools and crowd controls. Dpsers just worry about assistin / burstin. Its a completely different mindset but yeah playin heal is way more exigeant.

Actually I think people should start by playin tanks in pvp to know how to assist properly and then begin to be dpsers. I m still seein 2 tons of dps that never attack the targets alone in the back, or just focus the same one, that kind of stuff. Thats something that come with the tank role in pvp, gettin to know how to annoy / assist / protect.

Then when you re a dps you know how to play better. Its just that its extremely frustrating to not have players with the same reactivity than you sometimes ;p

[Atreus]

Uh, no? I said maximizing, not necessarily playing and surviving. A WHM (example) is gonna Cure or Medica for the same amount every time he uses it (don't bring up Divine Seal please). A DPS has a dozen other factors that affect their damage output. Cooldowns, MP (for BLMs), distance (for BRDs), position (for melee), proper rotations, interruptions that may screw up a combo, etc.. Let's not even get into DPS and tunnel vision.