The Hunt - a game breaking feature

[Geist]

The problem is not only that other people get their gear faster. This is also a problem of course, because an MMORPG is always about competition and SE always tried to balance the game for people with a life (or work as you may call it) and people without in the past. Right now people who play the game 24/7 are rewarded more for just being there and clicking one button over and over again like a zombie.

Verun, let's agree to disagree, at least on some of these points.
There's no doubt that the Hunt system needs further tweaking, and that the situation might be ameliorated by curbing the amount of Marks one can tally in a single istance (I'd suggest a daily quota on the elite targets, not unlike the Beast Tribe quests) and other adjustments, both to the mechanics and the creatures' prerogatives.

Also, simply mashing on a button doesn't take skill, and it's just dull. We're on the same page on that.

What I think isn't helping in this context is the slant on competition disjointed from cooperation. I'll elaborate further on it.

The reason for this is the main problem of the hunt:
The marks are not weekly limited. People just go on with their mindless, stupid, no skill requiring, game ruining mark farm. Which leads to another big problem:
All other parts of the game come short. Duty Finder queues take extreme amounts of time to pop now. FATE's are mostly empty. Even the Coerthas FATE people are almost absent now.

The game is not for skillful people anymore. Only silly childish trolls that want to get everything fast and then move on to the next MMO.

Just trolls, I wonder? Just a problem with the new bloods?

I'm on Excalibur, so that might also be a server thing - but the hordes (they've been slimming down during the past two days) I've been occasionally running into are also comprised, more often than not, of people already boasting their high-spec gear.
Welp, I can even make out (when the client isn't buckling before the massive input) a few familiar faces from Mor Dhona and other supposedly elite areas of the game, not to mention players I've been familiar with since 1.0 -- at least some of them are undeniably organized, prepared, and in some cases outright excellent at anything Yoshida and Komoto might throw at them, Coil(s) included.

So what they're doing there? I don't know, honestly. Unless speedrun-crushing the top ranked Marks until they literally disappear into light amounts to skill, too.

There we have a problem, and I think RunaRunagar and Arctic have a point in asking that at least sometimes, we all get off our respective high horses and think beyond raw stats and ranks. What makes me willing to issue a recommendation isn't just how good Person A is with cooldowns and skills, which might be awesome in itself, but how they resonate with other people. Teamwork, a sincere willingness to help, learn (or teach); being assertive while also practicing humility. And a little kindness even to complete strangers.

Gear should be a commodity and a tool first and foremost, IMHO, something that allows us to get further into the game.

You're correct in saying that good rewards should come through effort, but that shouldn't undermine fair play and diversity. Just my two gil coins.

[NargaHuntress]

I thought hunts was a (doing something else, happen apon, oh snap kill it thing). And I still believe it is great. But after today I hate them. Not because someone pulled early or I only got 1 seal. Its because all my friends do IS hunt. Ive been talking about farming ramuh ex for a ring and a sch book and when asked they all said they was doing hunts. So i make a Party finder group to do ramuh ex.... It turned in a fkin hunt party because no one would join my ramuh ex be EVERYONE is doing HUNTS.(point = hunts are so rewarding whats the point in doing anything else?.)

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

People will cry about nearly anything that nullifies their fake feeling of superiority, I'm just happy I'm getting i110 faster for my secondary classes, I don't get why special snowflakes care so much whether other people are getting gear or not, since they still have shiny High Allagan gear.

Let me put this in perspective: I FINALLY cleared T5 2 weeks ago. I'm excited to run Second Coil and get gear/sands/oil there. I also just recently got a Weathered Soldiery weapon, so I'm done with Relic anything. It took lots of time, effort, and failure to get good enough to be where I am. . . And now a system has been implemented to allow people to get what I have if not more than that with FAR less time, effort, skill, or failure. It's not about feeling superior, no, but as it stands I can just go get my UAT from Syrcus Tower (and I did, actually. First drop I ever got), then do enough hunts for Sands/Oil. And voila, best sub-raid level gear in game. Why bother with Second Coil?

Mind you, I'm not thinking that way. I WANT to try Second Coil, now that I can. But largely the hunts are so rewarding that many players have become lethargic. Why work harder than you need to or run instanced content when you can just hunt? ALSO, remember when Yoshida said he didn't want to increase Atma drop rates because it "wouldn't be fair to the players' hard work" or something like that? This is exactly what just happened to anyone who has been/wants to start running Second Coil.

And lest we forget, gear doesn't top skill. Many players have the misconception that getting good gear (via hunts, speed runs for tomes, etc.) will allow them to take on harder content. No, honestly, it only gets you in the door. You don't get to the Super Bowl by simply throwing on football pads and a uniform, you get there by being one of the best football players you can be, regardless of your equipment quality.

[Geist]

And lest we forget, gear doesn't top skill. Many players have the misconception that getting good gear (via hunts, speed runs for tomes, etc.) will allow them to take on harder content. No, honestly, it only gets you in the door. You don't get to the Super Bowl by simply throwing on football pads and a uniform, you get there by being one of the best football players you can be, regardless of your equipment quality.

Indeed, gear is a tool, the key or "pass" to get through the door, the point bonuses don't compensate for whatever else one might be lacking... and whatever might be lurking behind the door itself. Patience, perseverance and enthusiasm are the real meat and potatoes of one's growth.

[Sawamura]

Hunt is great idea. Though set up is screw up so badly.
Bad side
-Player trash talk/troll much worst than before like in this thread.
-/blist early puller even with rank b.
-unlimit cap kill DF and pvp and primal.
- S rank Lag as early Odin and Behemonth fate cause mob disappear.
- Very unfriendly for solo player.
-Hunt is serious business.

Good side:
-you get sand/oil.
-Zone is super lively.
-very good team-play with waiting people arrive and hate early puller together.

Anything I miss?

[EricCartmenez]

Indeed, gear is a tool, the key or "pass" to get through the door, the point bonuses don't compensate for whatever else one might be lacking... and whatever might be lurking behind the door itself. Patience, perseverance and enthusiasm are the real meat and potatoes of one's growth.

Bingo! I don't think there's anything wrong with the hunt. It's the people who run around, then someone "accidentally" pulls early. So what, go to the next one in 30 seconds. Eventually, the swarms of individuals looking to get level 90 gear from Allied Seals will dwindle and those who want level 100 and 110 gear for little work will also fade. You can only get so many soldiery tomes per week. People will have to start running the fights to get the drops of gear, then back to hunts to grab the oil and sands and upgrade it.

The childish stuff I saw online this weekend made me laugh. Name calling aside, I actually saw people telling others not to use AOE's and Chocobos. Really? I can't see the fight because of all the AOE's. Sorry, it's the only way WHM and SCH get their participation, so expect to see medica and holy if they are not using Stone II. Turn off the effects and you'll see just fine. Early pull? Move on. You want me to wait on this B while you slash down that A and S on your way, but you won't hold the A or S or invite me to your party so I can get credit? Sorry, B is dead, moving on. I'm not waiting any more than you did. You got more tomes than I did, so enjoy your victory. Geesh. Can't tell you how many B's I've blasted solo or with two people.

No matter if you are iLVL 110, if you don't know how to fight the bosses in anything from Howling Eye HM to Labyrinth to the Coil, you're still going to see your party get wiped because you think your overpowered stuff is making up for a lack of skill. [I use the word "you" in any person who believes this, not pointed to any individual.] It takes both skill and gear to win those fights. I watch all the YouTube videos I can on fights before I enter, regardless of how easy they might seem. Yes, there are still times when a team member doesn't know the mechanics or they just don't care, and yes there are wipes as a result. But for the most part, people who prepare will do well.

It's just like real life. Just because you own a Lamborghini doesn't mean you're a great driver, you have a Jimmy Page replica Les Paul you can play guitar, or you have a degree from Harvard you're the best candidate for a job. You need to be able to apply what you have.

If anything, I think the hunt fails the player only in that it requires no skill to upgrade gear so highly, leaving most (not all) folks who take advantage of this system to make it into raids and fights in which they lack the skill to apply their gear. It leaves me to wonder if the reason that most people are doing this is for bragging rights or do they truly want to take on Leviathan Extreme, Coil, or others?

[lvicious]

Most players are on the huge TS channels. Very organized with someone calling out marks lol.. I haven't done any marks in huge groups or on TS and as of now I'm not going to.

If it makes you happy and you have fun doing that then by all means I have no issue with people using the system "as intended". I already feel less sense of accomplishment for most of everything in the game and always have. It's just a really, super easy mmorpg is all but I still play and always will.

The way hunts are right now though I just have no interest in all that mess no matter what quick rewards you can obtain and I get enough quick rewards as is.

I still just wish there was more end game content FC's could do together outside of dungeons and hunts... and yes I still miss xp pt's and the grind but I don't want massive changes to the game. Those "ffxi" days are gone and will stay gone.

It is what it is and I see no need for me to ruin it for those who enjoy it and I do enjoy it cause I still p2p.. just not very rewarding.. maybe short term it is.. very short term. They'll work on hunts and make them better overall. Just give it time.

[Melian]

Hunts seem incredibly obnoxious to me.

Not because they let everyone get 110 gear, but because there's nothing to them. It's been said by others, but it's just show up, poke mob X along with 60 others for 5-20 seconds, profit. The game shouldn't be that.

I understand not wanting to have 12 hour fights, I understand wanting to make things accessible, I understand wanting to give casual players a way to get the second-best gear, and I understand wanting events that get everyone on the server together. I don't necessarily agree that all of those are good design principles, but I get the arguments for them. Having it done this way though... it's just sad.

At least let people run through an interesting fight or something. Some four person content that's easy to assemble a team for, and not super challenging. I don't want to think up solutions: there's lots of ways to do it better. I just want to add my two cents saying that these hunts are terrible.

[MeiUshu]

this is solely my opinion, marks dont need to be limitated the way to obtain them though maybe yes. Meaning, you only can kill once a given mob per week. After that you no longer can kill the same for a whole week. This way it MIGHT give people that didnt have a chance to get marks rather then reach the mob but not be able to even target it.

Just me though

Mei

[Rebyl]

I think that SE needs to make copies of all marks but make the new marks FC specific. We can use our FC points to pop an even harder version of the marks we hunt as a group. That way people who are not a part of an FC can kill marks that roam while FCs pop their version of the mark w/o worrying about resets or people complaining that they pulled before the entire zone got there. FCs can summon an A-S rank mark and being able to down it as an FC; Like the leves but for FC members in party. It may even encourage people to join an FC instead of going solo. And I think that all marks.. roaming or FC specific should have a limit. If you kill them once, then you won't get credit for killing them again based off how many seals you earned equaling the max credit allowed for that rank, then you can't earn anymore for that monster after that. I think if you implement this, trolls will stop chomping up content and all of the shout wars will gradually begin to stop.