The Hunt - a game breaking feature

[Mags]

I've already cancelled my sub.

I cannot stand to see the community acting this way day in and day out in each zone I am in. And it is always... ALWAYS... the same. Someone pulled something before others showed up and the next 30 minutes is nothing but name calling and whatnot. I think they over did it with the rewards here. I understand they want people to play their new feature but giving away rewards one could only obtain in the hardest teir of raiding FASTER than raiding is just insane. No wonder queue times are in the toliet. This on top of the "community"... just disgusting, in my opinion. This is not what I wanted the game to be, this is not what the game was in Alpha and beta tests. This wasn't the game at launch.

I'll keep my ears open for the changes made to this system, but I doubt now even 2.4 can pull me back into the game as it is. Shame, I was really enjoying it.

[arctic]

I've already cancelled my sub.

I cannot stand to see the community acting this way day in and day out in each zone I am in. And it is always... ALWAYS... the same. Someone pulled something before others showed up and the next 30 minutes is nothing but name calling and whatnot.

That's such an extreme case of sensitive - I sincerely hope you never accidentally find yourself in the middle of a competition or confrontation.

People who are against this, ask yourselves:
Do you really want to play a game in such an easy way as to be able to obtain literally everything you need to get to the endgame content without using any skill? You don't need any kind of playing skill to zerg down a mob.

That's so elitist and short sighted. First off, it's still not Coil gear. If you're really a min/maxer elitist then you shouldn't feel threatened by the same ilevel gear since the stats still aren't as good. Not everyone can get coil gear, and they've already said these hunts have been introduced to help gear the community for the next wave of content.

The community is getting geared, granted there might have been some short shortsightedness on how far people are willing to take trolling, and how self entitled people are for things they did not find. But that will be resolved with time.

You can't get upset that people are getting gear. That's just ridiculous. No game (aside from guild wars 2, probably) keeps the same high-end gear through out the game. I remember working my butt off for Dark Light gear, now it's an instance trash drop. Should I quit because my high-end gear is getting less shiny because people can get equivalent ilevel gear with not as good stats? If people get stuck on old content because they can't get the gear then people will quit, then who will you flaunt your high level gear to? That really will be the death of the community and the game.

How far are you guys willing to take these complaints? You aren't required to participate and the instances are all still there, they haven't gone anywhere. How much is this really hurting you aside from your - I dunno ... warped pride? If everyone really is doing hunts and you can't find anyone to not do hunts with then, maybe it's just you with a problem?

I don't really expect everyone to have same level of indifference that I do towards hunts, but do have trouble understanding how this is "the one thing" that is generating so much drama and is "ruining everything" and anything related to this game for players.

[RunaRugar]

snip

People will cry about nearly anything that nullifies their fake feeling of superiority, I'm just happy I'm getting i110 faster for my secondary classes, I don't get why special snowflakes care so much whether other people are getting gear or not, since they still have shiny High Allagan gear.

[Verun]

People will cry about nearly anything that nullifies their fake feeling of superiority, I'm just happy I'm getting i110 faster for my secondary classes, I don't get why special snowflakes care so much whether other people are getting gear or not, since they still have shiny High Allagan gear.

The problem is not only that other people get their gear faster. This is also a problem of course, because an MMORPG is always about competition and SE always tried to balance the game for people with a life (or work as you may call it) and people without in the past. Right now people who play the game 24/7 are rewarded more for just being there and clicking one button over and over again like a zombie.
The reason for this is the main problem of the hunt:
The marks are not weekly limited. People just go on with their mindless, stupid, no skill requiring, game ruining mark farm. Which leads to another big problem:
All other parts of the game come short. Duty Finder queues take extreme amounts of time to pop now. FATE's are mostly empty. Even the Coerthas FATE people are almost absent now.

The game is not for skillful people anymore. Only silly childish trolls that want to get everything fast and then move on to the next MMO.

[Geist]

The problem is not only that other people get their gear faster. This is also a problem of course, because an MMORPG is always about competition and SE always tried to balance the game for people with a life (or work as you may call it) and people without in the past. Right now people who play the game 24/7 are rewarded more for just being there and clicking one button over and over again like a zombie.

Verun, let's agree to disagree, at least on some of these points.
There's no doubt that the Hunt system needs further tweaking, and that the situation might be ameliorated by curbing the amount of Marks one can tally in a single istance (I'd suggest a daily quota on the elite targets, not unlike the Beast Tribe quests) and other adjustments, both to the mechanics and the creatures' prerogatives.

Also, simply mashing on a button doesn't take skill, and it's just dull. We're on the same page on that.

What I think isn't helping in this context is the slant on competition disjointed from cooperation. I'll elaborate further on it.

The reason for this is the main problem of the hunt:
The marks are not weekly limited. People just go on with their mindless, stupid, no skill requiring, game ruining mark farm. Which leads to another big problem:
All other parts of the game come short. Duty Finder queues take extreme amounts of time to pop now. FATE's are mostly empty. Even the Coerthas FATE people are almost absent now.

The game is not for skillful people anymore. Only silly childish trolls that want to get everything fast and then move on to the next MMO.

Just trolls, I wonder? Just a problem with the new bloods?

I'm on Excalibur, so that might also be a server thing - but the hordes (they've been slimming down during the past two days) I've been occasionally running into are also comprised, more often than not, of people already boasting their high-spec gear.
Welp, I can even make out (when the client isn't buckling before the massive input) a few familiar faces from Mor Dhona and other supposedly elite areas of the game, not to mention players I've been familiar with since 1.0 -- at least some of them are undeniably organized, prepared, and in some cases outright excellent at anything Yoshida and Komoto might throw at them, Coil(s) included.

So what they're doing there? I don't know, honestly. Unless speedrun-crushing the top ranked Marks until they literally disappear into light amounts to skill, too.

There we have a problem, and I think RunaRunagar and Arctic have a point in asking that at least sometimes, we all get off our respective high horses and think beyond raw stats and ranks. What makes me willing to issue a recommendation isn't just how good Person A is with cooldowns and skills, which might be awesome in itself, but how they resonate with other people. Teamwork, a sincere willingness to help, learn (or teach); being assertive while also practicing humility. And a little kindness even to complete strangers.

Gear should be a commodity and a tool first and foremost, IMHO, something that allows us to get further into the game.

You're correct in saying that good rewards should come through effort, but that shouldn't undermine fair play and diversity. Just my two gil coins.

[Roxinova]

Snip

As someone also from Excalibur who has been a participant in so called hunt groups over the last few days, I can say it has not torn the community apart like OP suggests, but has brought them together, at least on Excalibur. There's a TS server set up, running 24/7, with a system for Linkshell invites (the Link Shell has to be created daily and you have to leave when you log out because there's not enough room in a Linkshell for all of the people on the server wanting to participate), party invites, they have running timers on the mobs (because unlike what OP said, the S ranks actually have spawn timers limiting how often they spawn, as well as certain conditions that must be met to spawn them), and *gasp* all of them work together to communicate what area they should check because a spawn timer is about to pop, and where it spawned once they find it. They call a pull time and wait for people to get there. Yes, sometimes you get the jerk who doesn't listen and pulls, anyways, however, at least on Excalibur, it has brought so many people together that we don't have enough room in Linkshells and FCs to fit all of the people! Oh, and the groups usually get max rewards from every pull because not only do they wait, but they know what buttons to hit to optimize their chances of getting the reward. The only thing OP can really safely argue is whether it's better to wait in a queue to get your gear or socialize with some people while you wait for a spawn to get your gear.

[Geist]

As someone also from Excalibur who has been a participant in so called hunt groups over the last few days, I can say it has not torn the community apart like OP suggests, but has brought them together, at least on Excalibur.

Roxi, I can only praise the hard effort (up to and including the TS server in question) some people have invested into the Hunts (I can think of Vandes who spent hours studying their behavior, same server as ours), but I daresay we still have a small way to go, even on Excalibur that, as you noted, is enjoying a fairly better situation.

The change in the way B-ranks are handled has lessened the problem, I'll give you that: but just as an example, I've seen that familiar sequence (large group of people occupying the zone -> casting ready skills while surrounding the mob -> announcing pull within a certain timeframe and then someone letting loose at a moment's notice) still taking place in East Gridania just the other day.

In that instance, the poor fellow who had initially sighted the monster and shouted its location to share it with everybody else didn't even get a party invite, and although it's certainly possible that most parties were full or late in replying because everybody was spamming actions (I know our party leader was, as sweet as she is, and that made getting the full reward a tad bitter), in my opinion that's reason enough to work harder on communicating and sharing with other players, since we have the kind of instruments and infrastructure you mentioned in your post.

In the same vein, I believe we'll have to find a counter to the early pulls. Explaining why it isn't astute but rather disruptive, even going to the extent of benching the jerks for a round or two so that they may get a hint... I think that was being discussed even before the patch hit.

By the by, this is meant as encouragement first and foremost, since you seem to be a honest believer in a better community - let's hope we can (hopefully!) avoid pack mentality and try to be as inclusive as possible. And of course, just my two gils.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

People will cry about nearly anything that nullifies their fake feeling of superiority, I'm just happy I'm getting i110 faster for my secondary classes, I don't get why special snowflakes care so much whether other people are getting gear or not, since they still have shiny High Allagan gear.

Let me put this in perspective: I FINALLY cleared T5 2 weeks ago. I'm excited to run Second Coil and get gear/sands/oil there. I also just recently got a Weathered Soldiery weapon, so I'm done with Relic anything. It took lots of time, effort, and failure to get good enough to be where I am. . . And now a system has been implemented to allow people to get what I have if not more than that with FAR less time, effort, skill, or failure. It's not about feeling superior, no, but as it stands I can just go get my UAT from Syrcus Tower (and I did, actually. First drop I ever got), then do enough hunts for Sands/Oil. And voila, best sub-raid level gear in game. Why bother with Second Coil?

Mind you, I'm not thinking that way. I WANT to try Second Coil, now that I can. But largely the hunts are so rewarding that many players have become lethargic. Why work harder than you need to or run instanced content when you can just hunt? ALSO, remember when Yoshida said he didn't want to increase Atma drop rates because it "wouldn't be fair to the players' hard work" or something like that? This is exactly what just happened to anyone who has been/wants to start running Second Coil.

And lest we forget, gear doesn't top skill. Many players have the misconception that getting good gear (via hunts, speed runs for tomes, etc.) will allow them to take on harder content. No, honestly, it only gets you in the door. You don't get to the Super Bowl by simply throwing on football pads and a uniform, you get there by being one of the best football players you can be, regardless of your equipment quality.

[Geist]

And lest we forget, gear doesn't top skill. Many players have the misconception that getting good gear (via hunts, speed runs for tomes, etc.) will allow them to take on harder content. No, honestly, it only gets you in the door. You don't get to the Super Bowl by simply throwing on football pads and a uniform, you get there by being one of the best football players you can be, regardless of your equipment quality.

Indeed, gear is a tool, the key or "pass" to get through the door, the point bonuses don't compensate for whatever else one might be lacking... and whatever might be lurking behind the door itself. Patience, perseverance and enthusiasm are the real meat and potatoes of one's growth.

[EricCartmenez]

Indeed, gear is a tool, the key or "pass" to get through the door, the point bonuses don't compensate for whatever else one might be lacking... and whatever might be lurking behind the door itself. Patience, perseverance and enthusiasm are the real meat and potatoes of one's growth.

Bingo! I don't think there's anything wrong with the hunt. It's the people who run around, then someone "accidentally" pulls early. So what, go to the next one in 30 seconds. Eventually, the swarms of individuals looking to get level 90 gear from Allied Seals will dwindle and those who want level 100 and 110 gear for little work will also fade. You can only get so many soldiery tomes per week. People will have to start running the fights to get the drops of gear, then back to hunts to grab the oil and sands and upgrade it.

The childish stuff I saw online this weekend made me laugh. Name calling aside, I actually saw people telling others not to use AOE's and Chocobos. Really? I can't see the fight because of all the AOE's. Sorry, it's the only way WHM and SCH get their participation, so expect to see medica and holy if they are not using Stone II. Turn off the effects and you'll see just fine. Early pull? Move on. You want me to wait on this B while you slash down that A and S on your way, but you won't hold the A or S or invite me to your party so I can get credit? Sorry, B is dead, moving on. I'm not waiting any more than you did. You got more tomes than I did, so enjoy your victory. Geesh. Can't tell you how many B's I've blasted solo or with two people.

No matter if you are iLVL 110, if you don't know how to fight the bosses in anything from Howling Eye HM to Labyrinth to the Coil, you're still going to see your party get wiped because you think your overpowered stuff is making up for a lack of skill. [I use the word "you" in any person who believes this, not pointed to any individual.] It takes both skill and gear to win those fights. I watch all the YouTube videos I can on fights before I enter, regardless of how easy they might seem. Yes, there are still times when a team member doesn't know the mechanics or they just don't care, and yes there are wipes as a result. But for the most part, people who prepare will do well.

It's just like real life. Just because you own a Lamborghini doesn't mean you're a great driver, you have a Jimmy Page replica Les Paul you can play guitar, or you have a degree from Harvard you're the best candidate for a job. You need to be able to apply what you have.

If anything, I think the hunt fails the player only in that it requires no skill to upgrade gear so highly, leaving most (not all) folks who take advantage of this system to make it into raids and fights in which they lack the skill to apply their gear. It leaves me to wonder if the reason that most people are doing this is for bragging rights or do they truly want to take on Leviathan Extreme, Coil, or others?