WAR flavour proposal

[FallenWings]

With how Defiance and Shield Oath being nearly identical in terms of eHP increasing. Would it be plausible to have say, Inner Beast have its effect changed to "Increase maximum health by 25% and healing received by 25% for the duration of the ability (6secs)?" Would there be any cons to having this effect in place of flat 20% mitigation? If not, would you want this instead?

Personally I think it would be a pretty cool theme for WARs to give them a different style to taking hits while being the same in effectiveness. Although I'd prefer to see this proposition only applied to Inner Beast and not Vengeance. For the sake of having a skill with a different theme, like how PLDs have convalescence in their plethora of mitigation skills.

Disclaimer: I'm not looking to change WAR's overall effectiveness. 2.1 balance was great and I'm not trying to change that (except for Holmgang, every veteran WAR will tell you that it just doesn't compare to Hallowed Ground).

[silvach]

You already surpass PLD in many ways, adding 25% MHP selfheal (because as I assume, when the max HP is buffed, you heal the difference - like using it at 10000 puts you in 12500 and heal the 2,5k so you are not 10000/12500) is just pure madness. And if you want the Holmgang be as effective as Hallowed Ground, give us Steel Cyclone that is at the moment best enmity generation skill in game (over 17% better than Flash as AoE without Berserk / Maim).

Really mate. 25% sealfheal is just too freaking much.

[FallenWings]

You already surpass PLD in many ways, adding 25% MHP selfheal (because as I assume, when the max HP is buffed, you heal the difference - like using it at 10000 puts you in 12500 and heal the 2,5k so you are not 10000/12500) is just pure madness. And if you want the Holmgang be as effective as Hallowed Ground, give us Steel Cyclone that is at the moment best enmity generation skill in game (over 17% better than Flash as AoE without Berserk / Maim).

Really mate. 25% sealfheal is just too freaking much.

Well yeah, I mean the point is that it still retains the same effectiveness as current IB but with a different approach. I don't necessarily see how this is in any form better than current IB since the logic behind it is that Defiance = Shield Oath in terms of eHP. So 25% maxhp+ 25% healing received = 20% damage mitigation in terms of eHP.

Holmgang change is more QoL if anything. It still has its uses. Just not every WAR will rely on it like PLD's would on Hallowed Ground. CoS has its uses in terms of Higher Damage dealt, Off-GCD, and doesn't consume any resource. I agree it'd be nice to have an enimty tag to it but thats a different subject altogether and is offtopic.

[silvach]

Do you want it to work as Thrill of Battle or just like Defiance? That is quite a BIG difference. If you want it to work as Defiance - then 6 second uptime will not be enough to even heal WAR to MAXHP (like he has 8000/10000HP hits inner beast and gets to 8000/12500), if you would like to be it like Thrill of Battle (like he has 8000/10000 and then 10500/12500) it would be OP as hell because it would give you Defiance buff and Thrill of Battle heal. It would be those 2 combined.

[FallenWings]

Do you want it to work as Thrill of Battle or just like Defiance? That is quite a BIG difference. If you want it to work as Defiance - then 6 second uptime will not be enough to even heal WAR to MAXHP (like he has 8000/10000HP hits inner beast and gets to 8000/12500), if you would like to be it like Thrill of Battle (like he has 8000/10000 and then 10500/12500) it would be OP as hell because it would give you Defiance buff and Thrill of Battle heal. It would be those 2 combined.

If it doesn't heal the amount then it doesn't raise the eHP, so naturally yes it would work similiar to Thrill of Battle albeit with an additional +25% healing received tag to have it at the same effectiveness as 20% damage mitigation. I'm truly failing to understand how this is in any way OP.

[silvach]

How?

You gain 25% selfheal, 25% max HP and 25% more heal received. This is Thrill of Battle + Convalescence (but more powerful) available (at worst) every 12,5seconds.

You still think this is ok?

[FallenWings]

...the same effectiveness as 20% damage mitigation...

... and its every 20 seconds if stacks are gained normally(heavy swing doesn't give you a wrath stack). It effectively doesn't change from 2.1 IB(atleast I assume so, hence why I'm asking).

[Skull_Angel]

How?

You gain 25% selfheal, 25% max HP and 25% more heal received. This is Thrill of Battle + Convalescence (but more powerful) available (at worst) every 12,5seconds.

You still think this is ok?

The change FallenWings proposed is slightly less potent than the current IB (Inner Beast) in that it doesn't give the additional 100% damage dealt returned as HP. What it effectively does to IB is give it more viability used as a reactive skill without taking away it's ability to be used actively.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Compared to the current IB, FallenWings' proposal would be slightly inferior on paper. Ignoring IB's self-heal, FWs' IB would require ~3% more healing.

However, the healing requirements would spread further apart when you factor in additional damage reduction. That is, you need exponentially more bonus healing the more damage reduction you have.
For example, when you take 4/5 the damage (20% DR), you need 5/4 the healing (25% BH). But when you take 3/5 the damage (40% DR), you need 5/3 the healing (~67% BH - NOT 50%).

The bigger problem would be that you need to receive healing during the period of bonus healing in order to benefit from it. That is, the actual amount of additional healing would depend on how well timed IB and the heals are. With damage reduction, the healing requirement is mitigated absolutely. Also, DR has the benefit of retroactively affecting HoTs, Galvanize, and Stoneskin while it is active. Then again, bonus healing and bonus HP have the benefit of proactively affecting those things even after the bonus is gone, but this tends to be harder to capitalize on (it would be especially difficult with IB's 6 second window).

FWs' IB would see more use as a self-heal ability, but it would become more dubious as a mitigation ability.

Personally, I would much prefer the current IB, as it is far more reliable. A 6 second window of bonus healing may or may not be enough, depending on the exact circumstances at the moment. I don't like that uncertainty at all. Also, I don't often find myself in much need of a self-heal.

TL;DR: no, FallenWings' IB is not equivalent to the current IB. It would be stronger as a self-heal, but weaker as a mitigation tool.

[Skull_Angel]

snip

I completely overlooked the fact that FallenWings's proposed change had a much more limited mitigation value, thanks for pointing that out. I'm not too sure losing out on the bonus healing [after it's duration] would be a large detriment, unless the HP gained [through the buff] is surpassed by damage taken at a certain point (this is where the current IB model will surpass FW's in almost every case). It would change it's (IB's) function from a time limited damage reducer to a shield with a set value; that would not be too unlike it's original model, but weaker than the current model in most instances.