Tanks need a guide to enmity generation.

[Souljacker]

What you say (the trial for tanks) is not good idea. These tanks who want to learn will learn. These who don't will just skip the tutorial instantly without even reading anything. And even if they don't - do you really think that these tanks will be any good in the future?

Who said anything about a tutorial? The suggestions in here were specifically to change the job\class trials to actually be role specific. I agree that the CNJ trials were ridiculous. In no capacity does CNJ\WHM ever DPS except as filler in groups, and in no way should that trial have ever been so DPS-centric as it was. Even the good trial, where you have to save the tree was more DPS centric than anything. You HAD to bring down the adds fast because you cannot heal through the damage to the tree. Ridiculous questline for a class that ONLY evolves into a healer.

The Gladiator trials are a *little* better, but I think the larger issue there is with tank design from the ground up. Provoke should be a low level skill, because this defines your role as a tank. Flash should be slightly more powerful than it is so it doesn't need to be spammed at the start and pray it holds. Or give gladiator a native melee AoE attack like warrior has. Something. ANYTHING. I've played both, and won't even look at my gladiator at this point because warrior is much more fluid as a tank. I have enough cross-class to mitigate and heal back damage, and as much as I loved Paladin in XI, it just isn't the same shining knight it once was. I commend all the people who took it to cap and declare it perfectly balanced - congratulations. Now go roll another character and try it again, against geared players that didn't existed when you leveled.

[silvach]

I joined FFXIV month ago, leveled GLA and PLD without superior gear from "other characters" as I didn't have any. I faced the lvl30-40 struggle where you have Sword Oath instead of Shield Oath.

WAR and PLD aren't completely balanced. WAR is superior in many aspects, enmity generation, selfbuffing, ways to deal damage and while leveling. However, even if the math is on the WAR side, all depends on personal skills and that is the best. Is it easier to hold and maintain enmity on WAR? Yes. Is it easier to level as one? Ofcourse (defiance at lvl 30). Is it more rewarding than GLA / PLD leveling and struggling? No.

Every low-level dungeon I do, every high level content I do with my PLD is quite a challenge for me because I lack instant overpowered aggro generators like WAR (Steel Cyclone hello).

[No2631]

What you say (the trial for tanks) is not good idea. These tanks who want to learn will learn. These who don't will just skip the tutorial instantly without even reading anything. And even if they don't - do you really think that these tanks will be any good in the future?

I see your point, but disagree. A game really should do its best to discuss the main role you serve in a party rather than pretend you're DPS. I've explained to tanks how their mechanics work during the Garuda fight, and they learned and adapted and improved; however, I feel that such shouldn't be the task of partymembers, but of the game itself. Teach tanks what enmity means, how to generate it, why it's important, and how you lose it.Include an (optional) quest line that better teaches people how all these mechanics work in tandem.

If only 10% of currently unknowing tanks improve, it'd have been worth it.

[dramamine]

I remember getting really excited when I played the level 10 (or so) gladiator quest at the appropriate level, because pretty much the only way to finish it at my skill level with my gear was to hold the enmity of the guys trying to kill the NPC. I thought "Oh, nice, the class quests actually teach you how to play the class!". Too bad it's one of 3 or 4 class quests where you're required to do pretty much anything but just tank and spank a boss or a group of enemies.

I understand why the game isn't extremely structured to teach you how to play your role. Squareenix doesn't want to do anything to make the game less casual friendly. I suppose if the fights in the job/class quests were designed to mimic actual party content (like with NPC party members, for example), and enemies and NPCs had buffs/debuffs that exaggerated the effects of you playing your role right, that'd be a step in the right direction without scaring casuals away. Some people would still ignore them, I guess, or never make the connection of "Oh, so this is how I should be playing my class..." but it's probably better than nothing.

[blacksheepwall]

Could be worse, I was in Tam Tara HM the other day as bard and the tank asked me for ballad on the 1st lot of trash. I looked at the healer and he was full, but he kept on typing "BALLAD BALLAD" when i asked wtf it turns out it was for him..He called me all sorts of things mostly about what a noob I was when I refused and told me I should learn my class and it's all my fault if anyone dies.

[SwordCoheir]

In support of the OP

I should've specified towards the thread title. Clerical errors at 2am FTL! XD

[VargasVermillion]

WAR and PLD aren't completely balanced. WAR is superior in many aspects, enmity generation, selfbuffing, ways to deal damage and while leveling. However, even if the math is on the WAR side, all depends on personal skills and that is the best. Is it easier to hold and maintain enmity on WAR? Yes. Is it easier to level as one? Ofcourse (defiance at lvl 30). Is it more rewarding than GLA / PLD leveling and struggling? No.

Every low-level dungeon I do, every high level content I do with my PLD is quite a challenge for me because I lack instant overpowered aggro generators like WAR (Steel Cyclone hello).

They are more balanced than you think they are, the real imbalance is when they are leveling that's true. but in endgame they can do the same stuff a warrior can, just differently. only thing warrior 'wins' at is damage while tanking and AoE damage, a little bit in AoE aggro but not so much it's unfair or anything.

[Fyce]

What you say (the trial for tanks) is not good idea. These tanks who want to learn will learn. These who don't will just skip the tutorial instantly without even reading anything.

Excuse me but... what tutorial? By curiosity I just opened my tutorial menu but I couldn't find anything about enmity.
Also, even if they would be willing to read, there's nothing in the game which can grants you that wish.
Not to mention the fact that the tooltips of the skills are completly useless and don't explain a bloody thing.

I strongly believe that OP is right when he says that starting by having some guidelines in the game is a good way to start teaching people how enmity works.

[Grotesque]

Could be worse, I was in Tam Tara HM the other day as bard and the tank asked me for ballad on the 1st lot of trash. I looked at the healer and he was full, but he kept on typing "BALLAD BALLAD" when i asked wtf it turns out it was for him..He called me all sorts of things mostly about what a noob I was when I refused and told me I should learn my class and it's all my fault if anyone dies.

Well. Chainflash consumes mana and he wanted to be sure to spam enough flash for group hate to keep the aggro of the pack. So he maybe was a bit unsure but wanted to go the safe route to do his job and you were the prick who thought you know it better.

[wicked-one]

Even at 50 people still cannot hold hate. Had a Tam Tara HM with a warrior that wouldn't use defiance because it said it limited the skills he could use. So I ended up tanking most as Drg.

Full ACK, had a PLD in TamTara-HM which used exactly 2 Skills - Flash and Rage of Halone (uncomboed, of course)