Tanks need a guide to enmity generation.

[No2631]

As thread title. I just ran through the Cutter's Cry with a Paladin whose combo consisted of Fast Blade->Riot Blade. As you can guess, no one had a good time. While I'm all for letting people play the game they want to, I think it's important tanks at least get better opportunities to learn what enmity generation is.

As such I'd like to propose there should be an additional quest chain for tanks that introduces the concept of enmity generation, or at the very least a Help window or some other helpful in-game guide that explains that the line "Additional enmity generation" on the Rage of Halone combo is something Paladins should be very excited about, rather than the slightly higher potency on Riot Blade! I think newcomers would have a much better time of it if they understood what "enmity" meant, and why it's important for a tank to generate a lot of it.

[Ruri]

Even at 50 people still cannot hold hate. Had a Tam Tara HM with a warrior that wouldn't use defiance because it said it limited the skills he could use. So I ended up tanking most as Drg.

[wicked-one]

Even at 50 people still cannot hold hate. Had a Tam Tara HM with a warrior that wouldn't use defiance because it said it limited the skills he could use. So I ended up tanking most as Drg.

Full ACK, had a PLD in TamTara-HM which used exactly 2 Skills - Flash and Rage of Halone (uncomboed, of course)

[Yoninxi]

You can't fix stupid, if you try, you will get yelled at.

[OPneedNerfs]

1) Tell them nicely to do something right.

If you get a rude reply:
If you're a DPS, take off all equips, except weapon. When asked why, tell them it makes you more aerodynamic.
If you're a Healer, take off all equips except weapon. When asked why, tell them it helps you bond with the spirits better.

That usually shuts all those "I play the way I want people up nicely".

[Synestr]

1) Tell them nicely to do something right.

If you get a rude reply:
If you're a DPS, take off all equips, except weapon. When asked why, tell them it makes you more aerodynamic.
If you're a Healer, take off all equips except weapon. When asked why, tell them it helps you bond with the spirits better.

That usually shuts all those "I play the way I want people up nicely".

I am totally stealing this.

You wanna spiritbond, k I'm gonna bond with them spirits.

[Cynthis]

In general, the class quests, among other things, should do a better job preparing us. I haven't done the tank ones yet but I am doing the CNJ/WHM ones now and I am baffled that in every quest I am the DD, even when there are NPCs involved because they are mostly CNJ as well. Wouldn't it make sense to have these quests pair me with some lancers and archers and my job was to keep them alive...not to mention have us in the same party during the fight?

[Duuude007]

As thread title. I just ran through the Cutter's Cry with a Paladin whose combo consisted of Fast Blade->Riot Blade.

So long that there was a LARGE group of adds the pld was holding with flash spam, this is actually the ideal combo.

Of course dps can undermine its value by attacking single targets too much without switching, but yeah. It has value in certain scenarios.

Edit: If a pld wants the above issue to be mitigated, he/she should mark the enemy they are using riot combo on, as the one for attackers to focus on. And the dps should actually pay attention to said mark... heh.

[silvach]

So here is the deal. We can talk about it as much as we want to, but the truth is that these tanks will never, ever read those forums. They just prefer to ignore anyone that wants to help. I have encountered two tanks in this game that were doing nothing else but spamming only RoH. Not comboed. Just RoH all the time. The problem was that they did not have any idea how the combo system works.

What you say (the trial for tanks) is not good idea. These tanks who want to learn will learn. These who don't will just skip the tutorial instantly without even reading anything. And even if they don't - do you really think that these tanks will be any good in the future?

[Souljacker]

What you say (the trial for tanks) is not good idea. These tanks who want to learn will learn. These who don't will just skip the tutorial instantly without even reading anything. And even if they don't - do you really think that these tanks will be any good in the future?

Who said anything about a tutorial? The suggestions in here were specifically to change the job\class trials to actually be role specific. I agree that the CNJ trials were ridiculous. In no capacity does CNJ\WHM ever DPS except as filler in groups, and in no way should that trial have ever been so DPS-centric as it was. Even the good trial, where you have to save the tree was more DPS centric than anything. You HAD to bring down the adds fast because you cannot heal through the damage to the tree. Ridiculous questline for a class that ONLY evolves into a healer.

The Gladiator trials are a *little* better, but I think the larger issue there is with tank design from the ground up. Provoke should be a low level skill, because this defines your role as a tank. Flash should be slightly more powerful than it is so it doesn't need to be spammed at the start and pray it holds. Or give gladiator a native melee AoE attack like warrior has. Something. ANYTHING. I've played both, and won't even look at my gladiator at this point because warrior is much more fluid as a tank. I have enough cross-class to mitigate and heal back damage, and as much as I loved Paladin in XI, it just isn't the same shining knight it once was. I commend all the people who took it to cap and declare it perfectly balanced - congratulations. Now go roll another character and try it again, against geared players that didn't existed when you leveled.