The Discrimination Factor of Solo/party to Casual/Hardcore respectively.

[Cidolphus]

TLDR:
How dare someone who can play just as good if not better than me do what I get to do! I mean, yeah they're REALLY good and they pay just as much as I do to play the game, but I play ALL DAY EVERY DAY and they don't!! I DESERVE MORE!!

I have never posted here before, but could not believe this and had to post. This is absolutely insane and completely self-absorbed behavior. You have to be better than that, Doctor Mog. No one is really that bitter, right?

Of course more time means you get there faster, but that's all it should mean. Just because someone can't spend 10 hours a day on FFXIV doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to enjoy all it has to offer in their own time. They do pay just as much to play the game as you do. Also, you bought the game which includes all the content: why shouldn't you be able to enjoy all of it in your own time? Don't sell yourself short - you clearly have plenty of time to waste in an effort to feel better about yourself on the internet.

And, in reality, the OP is just being really long winded about wanting an easier way to find a group. Having time to find a group does not make you hardcore. Not having time to find a group does not make you casual. If the good content is made for groups only, the people that do not have the time to find a group are not getting what they paid for.

B---- Slap!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cidolphus]

I don't understand why hardcore gamers call casual players "lazy" for wanting a dungeon finder a la WoW. Seems to me the hardcore gamer with his computer next to his refrigerator playing FFXIV for fourteen hours straight and wearing a sleeping bag for an outfit is the lazy one.

[Melian]

Cross server matches would really destroy the sense of community (the positive aspect, i mean) that xi had and this game also has (or certainly could/should). It's nice to be on a server, and get to really know a large portion of the endgame people because you interact with them or even just bump into them constantly.

To be sure, a better seek is needed to get this happening, and people xping out of their ls, but I don't think cross server dungeon finder is the best idea (or even wow's - I like seeing who's lfging and picking who I select. It encourages people to be nice, play well, and develop a good reputation so they'll be chosen again).

The whole hardcore/casual debate frustrates me though. To me, it just seems so obvious that a vast majority of a game should be open to everyone. And it seems equally obvious that a tiny tiny bit should be set aside for hardcore elitists. You don't need everything in a game to have fun. If you can do 90-95% of the content, you're getting a lot of value for your money. Saying you need 100% because you want to be happy is saying hardcore people are stuck with 0% and don't deserve to be happy. That's just hypocritical. And if hardcore people get a shiny relic weapon from playing a ton.... I think it's totally fair they have at least /something/ unique to show for their commitment/time.

[Preypacer]

@preypacer

your solution is already in game
its called the anima/teleport system

i think thats why no one is responding to you, people can spend their anima if they wanna get teleported to a place after finding a party(unless someone will do it for them)

out of up to 8 people someone will have the point and anima to do it

and ive said ti before
[people who are always short on time have anima still sinc ethey dont play alot to use all 100 like those who play alot do

I'm not suggesting using the current teleport system for it. What I'm suggesting would be analogous to the Staging Point system compared to the Outpost Warp system. Both entail teleporting you to somewhere, but they're separate systems with separate requirements for use.

When I said "use the current Aetheryte network", I meant more in the sense of using the same concept... crystals or nodes that players can teleport to after binding to it.

I mentioned it in the previous times and forgot to mention it this time, but there would be a gil cost associated with this system, not anima. This way you're not adding one more thing on to the uses for Anima (which people already feel is too limited in supply), and it provides a money-sink for the game.

So, really, I'm not suggesting the same thing as already is in the game... or I wouldn't have bothered suggesting it in the first place :-p.

[Preypacer]

Cross server matches would really destroy the sense of community (the positive aspect, i mean) that xi had and this game also has (or certainly could/should). It's nice to be on a server, and get to really know a large portion of the endgame people because you interact with them or even just bump into them constantly.

Agreed, it also brings with it accountability and allows players to develop a reputation on the server, based on the player's attitude/personality. How well do they play? Are they a team player or are they only out for themselves? Are they greedy or do they give others their due? Do they ditch the group as soon as something isn't going their way, or without notice, etc...

Player accountability is an immensely valuable tool in developing a strong community. The decent people with good attitudes etc. rise to the top, and the idiots weed themselves out.

This is especially so in a setting like XI and now XIV because though people might have a few alts (mules) they use for storage, etc, they're primarily known by their main character.

I remember a few cases where people who were idiots on Pandemonium literally screwed themselves over, because their reputation spread and preceded them. They thought it was "cool" to be notorious for a while... 'til it started coming back to bite them in the ass. They had to basically take time away from the game, come back with an entirely different attitude, and work their ass off to get people to give them another chance. No one brought that on them but themselves.

Meanwhile, people who were cool, level-headed and down-to-earth - even if they weren't "the best players with the best gear" - had almost no trouble getting invites, because their positive reputation preceded them as well. People enjoyed being around them.

At the risk of sounding cheesy, it really does become something like a large, albeit somewhat dysfunctional, family over time. People leave the game, or take a break... and it's actually noticed that they're gone (for better or worse).

That could never happen in a setting where players are randomly selected from different servers and thrown together. There is no accountability beyond the duration of that group, and the chance of being matched with those same people again is pretty low. There's really no reason for someone who wants to be an asshat to avoid doing so... and boy oh boy is that proven in spades in WoW's random dungeon setup.

That's not the case in a setting where it's server-only for reasons I noted above.

Even if there is a random party system implemented and it's per-server only, that accountability would at least still be there, since people are grouped with others they're likely to encounter again in their travels.

The whole hardcore/casual debate frustrates me though. To me, it just seems so obvious that a vast majority of a game should be open to everyone. And it seems equally obvious that a tiny tiny bit should be set aside for hardcore elitists. You don't need everything in a game to have fun. If you can do 90-95% of the content, you're getting a lot of value for your money. Saying you need 100% because you want to be happy is saying hardcore people are stuck with 0% and don't deserve to be happy. That's just hypocritical. And if hardcore people get a shiny relic weapon from playing a ton.... I think it's totally fair they have at least /something/ unique to show for their commitment/time.

Well, I'd just ask that "hardcore" (in terms of playstyle) not be automatically paired with "elitist", because that's not always the case. Frankly, I've met plenty of elitist casual players as well. They can't play as much as a more "hardcore" player could, but they're no less arrogant a-holes than their "hardcore" counterparts.

I've known plenty of people who were as hardcore end-gamers as they come, but were in no way elitist. They realized their playstyle was merely a personal preference that others either couldn't or didn't want to partake in. They also realized that all their achievements and shiny rewards ultimately meant nothing because it could all be taken away with the flick of switch and the servers being taken offline.

[Melian]

Well, I'd just ask that "hardcore" (in terms of playstyle) not be automatically paired with "elitist", because that's not always the case. Frankly, I've met plenty of elitist casual players as well. They can't play as much as a more "hardcore" player could, but they're no less arrogant a-holes than their "hardcore" counterparts.

That's certainly true. It's easy to parse word, and these broad labels can cover so many types of individuals the actual arguments fall apart just because one person views "X" as "Y", while another views "X" as "Z".

But you're quite right. There can be mean players with low play time, or players with low play time who loathe themselves for not having "good enough" gear and demand perfect execution. Just like their can be really solid players or people on nearly 24/7 who can be lots of fun to be around as well, or even people on for lots of time who've just mismanaged their time and have relatively little in the way of material accomplishments compared to what they'd like. And it goes without saying that you can have good gear, and still be a mediocre player. Some of the larger yet quality shells in xi fell into the trap of gearing players like that because you can't reasonably get a perfect screen of every applicant (not without turning the application into some farcial extended test, at least, and I know no ls that really went to huge lengths to make people say.... compete against one of the shell's top whms to determine how fast they could get na's off). Anyways, there are all sorts of other subtypes and unique personalities.

So yeah. If no two person's casuals or hardcores are the same, even the most nicely intended debate can quickly just devolve into two people speaking into the wind.

[TheVedis]

I don't understand why hardcore gamers call casual players "lazy" for wanting a dungeon finder a la WoW. Seems to me the hardcore gamer with his computer next to his refrigerator playing FFXIV for fourteen hours straight and wearing a sleeping bag for an outfit is the lazy one.

I'm not suggesting using the current teleport system for it. What I'm suggesting would be analogous to the Staging Point system compared to the Outpost Warp system. Both entail teleporting you to somewhere, but they're separate systems with separate requirements for use.

When I said "use the current Aetheryte network", I meant more in the sense of using the same concept... crystals or nodes that players can teleport to after binding to it.

I mentioned it in the previous times and forgot to mention it this time, but there would be a gil cost associated with this system, not anima. This way you're not adding one more thing on to the uses for Anima (which people already feel is too limited in supply), and it provides a money-sink for the game.

So, really, I'm not suggesting the same thing as already is in the game... or I wouldn't have bothered suggesting it in the first place :-p.

@prey

the anima/teleport network right now has outposts too, as i said, youd be adding something already in game, it really is the same thing(your only rank 12 so i dont think you realize this yet, but it seriously is the same thing, its already in game)

@cid

we arent calling casuals lazy, we are calling everyone who cant take the 5 minutes to run anywhere lazy

[Crica]

It takes 5 MINUTES, or less!

If you don't have 5 minutes to travel a short distance how on earth do you have 1h+ to partake in content. And by the way, you could potentially wait LONGER than 5 minutes just to get a party to do content, so your 1 hour play time is already cut short.

If you truly have only 1 hour to play a night, then any content that lasts for an hour or more simply won't fit in your schedule, no matter how quickly you travel there.

Traveling to the content quickly ALLOWS me to play MORE and travel LESS, therefore EXTENDING my PLAY time in the content and that is a GOOD thing for players who have limited game time per session.

And you have YET to say WHY you CARE that I travel less and play more with my limited game time?

You have YET to say WHY you WANT me to spend my limited game time traveling instead of playing?

You have YET to even give ANY REASON AT ALL that would show how negatively it would affect YOUR PERSONAL GAMEPLAY if I travel LESS and play MORE with my limited game time?

[Crica]

@cid

we arent calling casuals lazy, we are calling everyone who cant take the 5 minutes to run anywhere lazy

Me, or anyone else like me, traveling LESS and playing MORE in this game does NOT negatively affect YOUR personal gaming at all - So WHY would I, or anyone else like me, CARE what you think about me, or anyone else like me, traveling less and playing more?

[MeowyWowie]

Um, it's been said multiple times before, Crica. Instant teleport and instanced-heavy content makes the game world appear empty and smaller than it actually is. If you could teleport everywhere instantly, you'd rarely see anyone out in the fields, they'd all be either in dungeons or main cities. Again, it makes our already small community seem that much smaller and may even serve as a deterrent to new players.

FFXIV > Dungeon Crawler XIV.