[dev1032] PUG skills singled out.

[NoctisUmbra]

A half second bind is balanced with light strike? I didn't realize that light strike was completely useless.

Lancers pierce things, hit multiple targets, and work as a crowd/mob control while being able to stay more distant than other melee range DoW. Pugilists get up close and personal and are best used as a class that can evasion tank and deal dps simultaneously. There should be a difference. Both are class specific skills, with class specific buffs/effects.

However, Light Strike isn't even the issue. Although it still isn't justified in my opinion, 10 MP on Light Strike isn't a big deal in most scenarios. It's Pummel. Pummel's damage is basic, if not less than basic and it simply generates more TP than a basic attack. It is PGL's equivalent of Full Thrust, which has no MP Cost.

I can accept Light Strike maybe, but they seriously need to offer an explanation for Pummel, which costs even more MP than Light Strike.

And pierce does damage to an enemy in between you and your target, flurry gives an extra attack. I'd take flurry in 99% of all situations.

Again, what you're basically saying is "I'd rather play as a pugilist in 99% of all situations." Then of course by all means do so. This doesn't justify an MP Cost. Hell Flurry doesn't even have an MP Cost. Only problem with Flurry is still not being able to include in BRs.

Also, Flurry is 3 hits vs the regular 2 hits from a PGL attack - however each hit in Flurry does a bit less damage than usual, so Flurry ends up being just a tad stronger than a basic PGL attack, but not 1.5x stronger as 3 hits vs 2 hits would suggest.

Pierce hits for the same damage as a basic attack, but if you play like a lancer should play and position yourself to hit multiple mobs you're dealing more damage than a PGL ever would with basic attacks. LNC is a better DD than PGL. This is known. Who knows how much 1.18a will change that, but as it stands that is the case. PGL balances having less DPS with having more survival, thus being a viable tank.

Honestly, I normally wouldn't have a problem with people trying to get a boost for the class I play. But I'm worried you are laying it on a little thick with the "woe is me", what I don't want is a restructure of these abilities that leaves us actually handicapped or "red headed stepchildren" (drama!) rather than something as trivial as a little MP.

No one is laying it thick. I'm not creating drama. I'm asking for an explanation to this nerf. It is a nerf. The skills were balanced before. They don't need to change it into something different and risk making it worse, which seems to be what you're worried about... fear change? They simply need to make it what it USED to be - without MP costs. Asking to change it back is not asking for a restructure.

I'm not a random person, I'm a pugilist main and have been since Sept 22, 2010. I've been 50 since January, are you 50 pugilist yet on another character? Cause it looks to me like you are an archer who got pummel two weeks ago, has never played pugilist in darkhold or any difficult encounter where this stuff is actually an issue worth complaining about. Maybe you should stop talking for "us", because I for one don't agree with your level of panic over this, or your proposed solutions.

Looking up a player's class ranks makes for a weak, desperate argument. Pugilist is my main, was my main, was my first rank 50 and I still mainly play Pugilist. Here I am arguing against you. Don't lower the debate's standard by pointing out people's class ranks, especially when clearly there are r50 PGL mains who do not agree with you.

Add a very small amount of MP to second wind, problem solved. Best solution in the thread. Also rename it Chakra. With such a short recast Second Wind doesn't really fit anymore anyways. Oh and fix flurry in Battle Regimen please you forgot to turn off a switch somewhere when you changed it in 1.18.

If they did that, sure I wouldn't mind. It is an effective solution. Although at this point it seems more like a patch-up to fix something that shouldn't be there, it may just be something PGL needs for being unique. If so it would suggest that PGL uses MP as "chakra" to increase the effectiveness of it's strikes.

If they increase the duration of the Light Strike buff, and make Pummel hit much harder and/or generate more TP than it does now then yes I would be fine with it. The MP cost has to make sense. We have to see that using MP makes the skill better than it was before when it used noting.

Yes, please. Fix Flurry.

P.S. I still think they should bring back stances for PGL.

[Arcell]

Flurry has been fixed, used it a few times in BR today. This is slightly better, still please remove or give us a reason for the MP costs.

[Scape]

You can't really argue the buff standpoint though as Featherfoot gives the same (and stronger version) effect as Light Strike but requires no MP.

shhhhh, I don't want SE to see and start charging us MP for featherfoot!

[Akuun]

After the removal of Physical level everyone is going to be so weak on their main class xD

Thing is I use these abilities all the time for fast tp, meaning I run out fast and can't cure.. and if the mob I fight is still half health I cannot kill it fast, because I can't get fast tp, and I cannot hold off because I cannot cure. Only really happened a few time in long fights but still!

If it's your main, why isn't it 50 already?
I swear, I see way too many people spending way to much time bitching, and not enough time playing or keeping up with the dev info.

First, stats are being reworked so that they won't be some high number like 174 to cap, and gear will actually play a part.
So as for your uninformed concern, you'll likely be even more powerful after 1.19 than you are now.

Now everyone go play the game and stop crying over some minor mp cost. You might even dare I say it, learn to play your class.

[Arcell]

Some of us aren't exactly crying over it, we're wondering why an MP cost was put on Pugilists attacks and not the attacks of any other classes. I think it's a pretty fair concern to wonder why Pugilist has additional requirements other classes do not, especially when it seems rather unwarranted.

I still play and make due every day but it becomes inconvenient when I cannot perform two of my basic attacks because I'm out of MP.

A couple of good solutions would be:

A) Take out the MP costs.

B) Add MP regen to Second Wind.

C) Give us more MP per Mind stat.

D) Add an MP version of Bloodbath.

I mean I'll play either way, just trying to be a little constructive in light of all this. Thankfully they have fixed Flurry so it can be added into battle regimens.

The class hasn't lost functionality really, it's just quite inconvenient. I managed to tank Great Buffalo yesterday with little trouble but the MP costs still bug me. I can still do great (now even better) damage in groups but I still feel the MP costs are unnecessary. It just makes little sense as to why they're there.

[MattyWS]

If it's your main, why isn't it 50 already?
I swear, I see way too many people spending way to much time bitching, and not enough time playing or keeping up with the dev info.

First, stats are being reworked so that they won't be some high number like 174 to cap, and gear will actually play a part.
So as for your uninformed concern, you'll likely be even more powerful after 1.19 than you are now.

Now everyone go play the game and stop crying over some minor mp cost. You might even dare I say it, learn to play your class.

Because I don't play religiously. What does it matter if I'm not rank 50, it's still my main class and I use these abilities. Sorry I had no idea these forums were made for rank 50 only.

And I'm not crying about it, I'm agreeing that it's silly to cost MP and it affects the job quite a bit, as I stopped using anything other than Second Wind to heal myself, seems to fix the issue but solo, it's still a problem. Not a big problem mind you, but it's something that doesn't need to be.

[hotah]

I swear, I see way too many people spending way to much time bitching, and not enough time playing or keeping up with the dev info.

Did they give us new info about this? I haven't seen any. I've been looking for it. I also play my PGL regularly, and I rarely have any downtime, unless the mobs I am grinding on are all dead.

Now everyone go play the game and stop crying over some minor mp cost. You might even dare I say it, learn to play your class.

Glad you found a way to make yourself feel like a better player. I'm not overly concerned about it, though it would be nice to hear an official reason for this.

[Akuun]

With a 30 and 60 second cool down, you shouldn't even be worried about these abilities using up all your mp, even on a boss fight, and if you're tanking, the only healing abilities you should even need to use is second wind.
If your mages can't keep you healed or keep running out of mp, then they are either bad at their class and not managing mp, or you are taking to much damage and need to make adjustments.
My pug requires less cures from mages than my gla counterparts, and I'm not having to use spells to keep from dying.
Also if you're using sac or cure 3 you're just wasting mp, stick with sac and sac 2 if you have to use spells. (the regen outweighs the actual heal)
And the proper buffs for a fight are stone skin and shock spikes, not more cures and styg spikes.
Finally, put up your weapons after each encounter, fleet of foot is nice for farming, worthless in parties.

Looking at your spec I would say you have too much mnd, and could use more dex and str.
Keep in mind that str directly effects damage reduction on blocks, this includes partial parries.
Lodestone doesn't show gear, so i can't suggest any changes there.

[Arcell]

Looking at your spec I would say you have too much mnd, and could use more dex and str.
Keep in mind that str directly effects damage reduction on blocks, this includes partial parries.
Lodestone doesn't show gear, so i can't suggest any changes there.

I think it's supposed to work that way but I don't believe it does. Also isn't Parry DEX based? Until the stats work and we have per-class point allotment there's not a lot fixing this. If you're talking to me my Mind is so high because I do occasionally play mage classes and at least like to have a decent MP pool.

[Akuun]

Did they give us new info about this? I haven't seen any. I've been looking for it. I also play my PGL regularly, and I rarely have any downtime, unless the mobs I am grinding on are all dead.

More of a general thing about posts on these forums, but still this is a gripe about something being "unfair".
I have yet to see any real disadvantage vs other close range attackers.

Glad you found a way to make yourself feel like a better player. I'm not overly concerned about it, though it would be nice to hear an official reason for this.

Ha ha, I wouldn't care if I was the best or the worst player. I play, and I enjoy playing.
Sure it would be nice, there are a lot of things that Yoshi-P is keeping quiet about for now.
I guess it will just be a surprise. ^_^