A Random Comment

[Malevicton]

I like that they've finally noticed people are mad about this system, but SE response is extremely patronizing to me... "We'll explain how RNG works!" Okay, sure, a decent amount of people still don't get it, but a lot of other people do get it and our complaint isn't "This isn't random!" Our complaint is "Yes, you've developed a reliable generator of randomness, and that's a horrible thing to put in a video game; none of us want a truly random generator, and that's why almost everyone else in the industry has stopped using truly random generators in favor of weighted generators."

That's not to say that there isn't a good argument that favors their system, but I'd like to see that argument from them. Instead I get a middle-school level probability lesson. dafuq?

This "explanation" is months behind the player base.

[Merle]

Exactly...... "rng sucks", etc... you can have bad luck, but... so often? really? so many days? damn... my luck must suck reeeeeally bad

You can get something at first try... or never get it, thats rng.... but what happens when you need to do a PROGRESSION quest based on rng and you're so unlucky that your never get what you need? Death by inanition

Yeah, great post. I know how rngs works. Almost everyone knows how it works (more or less). People is just telling rng SUCKS

[Zangetsu]

Yep, 10 primal weapon breaks at 70% success. I have broken more than success. Makes me sad. The way I look at it is 50/50 always with everything. It either will succeed or it will not.

[Shadex]

<Insert properly generated random number>

Item Synthesis? -20
Materia Melding? -40
Atma Drop? -60

Sure, they are confirming that they use really high quality and true random number generators. They just don't tell us whether or not they do anything with that number once it is generated. It is a simple, single line of code that can be used to control the flow of assets into and out of the game world. Little effort, high return.

*puts hand on top of head*

Yup, no tinfoil hat.

[axemtitanium]

People are really bad at knowing what they want. This isn't an opinion. It's scientifically proven fact. This is so prevalent that the Wikipedia article has almost 200 entries. ITT people complain that they don't want true RNG, they want one that increases success % as they fail. This is a perfect example of people not knowing what they want. Studies have shown that your happiness is much greater when the success of the outcome is unknown and unexpected than when the outcome is expected.

Scenario 1 (true RNG, 5% drop rate): Atma drops from 1st FATE. Very unexpected, Player gains 100 "units of happiness".

Scenario 2 (true RNG, 5% drop rate): Atma drops from 22nd FATE. Within normal boundaries of expected value, Player gains 50 units.

Scenario 3 (true RNG, 5% drop rate): Atma drops from 50th FATE. FINALLY! Player gains 150 units.

Scenario 4 (weighted RNG, drop rate increases over time): Atma doesn't drop from 1st FATE. Player grumbles about having to grind out 49 more FATEs in the zone to max out the drop %. Player gains 20 units when it finally drops.

Obviously "units of happiness" is a made up measure but this roughly illustrates how removing the peaks and valleys of RNG would turn the game into a bland experience. There's no adversity and thus no elation at having conquered adversity if 1) success is guaranteed and 2) the emotional curve is flat. Modern AAA video games are so focus tested and all the sharp edges are sanded down to hell, creating very smooth, very polished, very boring linear experiences. RNG contributes to keeping the emotional highs and lows over the course of gameplay by introducing the unexpected.

[Merle]

RNG contributes to keeping the emotional highs and lows over the course of gameplay by introducing the unexpected.

Did you feel realized once you finished your Atma grind? because i didn't feel realized at all. It was just a "oh my god, this **** is finally over"

[Mysteran]

Scenario 3 (true RNG, 5% drop rate): Atma drops from 50th FATE. FINALLY! Player gains 150 units.

I think by that point it's closer to 1 unit. Or negative units... as the person realizes "One down, eleven more to go... for my first Atma weapon."

[Yukiko]

It was just a "oh my god, this **** is finally over"

And then novus grind came... not only with drop RNG but also failure and spiritbonding... luck is exponentially increasing (its not a multiplicator!)
Its same as Mysteran said:

I think by that point it's closer to 1 unit. Or negative units... as the person realizes "One down, eleven more to go... for my first Atma weapon."

[Giantbane]

People are really bad at knowing what they want. This isn't an opinion. It's scientifically proven fact. This is so prevalent that the Wikipedia article has almost 200 entries. ITT people complain that they don't want true RNG, they want one that increases success % as they fail. This is a perfect example of people not knowing what they want. Studies have shown that your happiness is much greater when the success of the outcome is unknown and unexpected than when the outcome is expected.

Scenario 1 (true RNG, 5% drop rate): Atma drops from 1st FATE. Very unexpected, Player gains 100 "units of happiness".

Scenario 2 (true RNG, 5% drop rate): Atma drops from 22nd FATE. Within normal boundaries of expected value, Player gains 50 units.

Scenario 3 (true RNG, 5% drop rate): Atma drops from 50th FATE. FINALLY! Player gains 150 units.

Scenario 4 (weighted RNG, drop rate increases over time): Atma doesn't drop from 1st FATE. Player grumbles about having to grind out 49 more FATEs in the zone to max out the drop %. Player gains 20 units when it finally drops.

Obviously "units of happiness" is a made up measure but this roughly illustrates how removing the peaks and valleys of RNG would turn the game into a bland experience. There's no adversity and thus no elation at having conquered adversity if 1) success is guaranteed and 2) the emotional curve is flat. Modern AAA video games are so focus tested and all the sharp edges are sanded down to hell, creating very smooth, very polished, very boring linear experiences. RNG contributes to keeping the emotional highs and lows over the course of gameplay by introducing the unexpected.

I got 5 atma in a period of 2.5 hrs. I got the SShroud atma after 1 fate. This did not generate more "units of happiness" that were lost to the very, very lengthy grinds in outer la, southern than or western than. The very final atma was in outer la and it took me over 10hrs of solid grinding. It was more than 50 fates. It did not generate 150 units of happiness when I FINALLY got the last damn atma. I would say my reaction was closer to #4 in your example, except 20 might be over stating it. 1 may be more appropriate. I was relieved to be finished, but not amused in any way.

Even though I consider myself to probably be lucky over all, I did not feel like the whole experience generated more "units of happiness" than were lost. I did not feel excited when my atma was completed, just glad that BS was over so I could move on to the books which I found to be much better paced (but again, that was only because I didn't have to wait too long for most of the book fates ... gogo RNG).

Trying to socket a Tier IV materia at a 16% chance I have slotted some with only 1-2 attempts, and my worst was 27 attempts (when your average should be 6.25). The 27 attempts did far more to generate bad feelings about this game than lucky successes did to generate positive feelings..

It took me 50 attempts at Ifrit HM to get a weapon. That emotional impact of that lasted longer than the 3 attempts at Garuda that gave me my Garuda weapon. I don't remember how many attempts I made at Turn 1 to get some gear for my healer (I wasn't keeping track, but it was a lot), but I didn't get any whatsoever. Same happened with my BLM in Turn 2 (fewer attempts, but longer queue waits). Those "failures" left a more poignant stamp on my emotional attachment to the game, than when I did get the stuff I wanted.

On the other hand, with hunts, you earn seals at a steady pace. Every once in a while you get the emotional high of getting a log drop. But even without the log drops I'm making steady progress, so I don't suffer the emotional lows from long periods of complete and utter failure.

While creating Tier 3 jewelry, I have to rely on luck to some degree. There are ways I can improve my luck by how I lose my skills. Every craft is somewhat exciting because I don't know how it will turn out. I will still have the abject failure now and again, where RNG doesn't swing my way so my quality is very low and my attempt to reclaim also fails so I lose all my materials. The chance at failure is what heightens the excitement of the crafting. But since the chance of abject failure when I'm using a proper rotation with good gear and food is very low, it has not become too much of a burden to be an issue.


There are ways to incorporate RNG into the game where you don't get the emotional pit of "RNG hates me", but still allow for some emotional highs. Atma, fights with large loot tables, advanced melding and novus melding all implement RNG in poor ways that risk more loss of "units of happiness" than they can potentially gain.

[Wilksha]

Reading through a lot of these post it seems too many do not understand the difference between perceived randomness and true randomness. Perceived randomness is more of a random that isn't random at all and is easily predictable with pattern cropping up a lot in a series. True randomness is just that, what CAN happen.
The easiest way to point out the difference is using the coin flipping method. In a series of 100 flips, perceived randomness would believe that flipping 5 heads or tails in a row is not possible where in fact it has the same odds of any other pattern of 5 flips.
I don't fault anyone for not understanding the difference between the two since to get a decent grasp of true randomness you have to have some knowledge in mathematics and physics.
Veritasium and Vesauce both have videos on Randomness that might make you think if you wanna know worldly randomness. Veritasium's not random Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMb0...RG1u-2MsSQLbXA and Vsauce's What is random video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rIy...ature=youtu.be. Take a look at these they will make you think twice on what is really "random"