Please re-evaluate the difficulty of previous endgame content on the DF

[Fendred]

Had that happen, still won. Your point fails. If you don't want to learn mechanics, you need to stay out of endgame. If the game gave you a telegraph telling you to get out for every mechanic, there would be no difficulty.

Read my previous posts, because you are taking what I'm saying out of its original context. Also, you are talking to a person who beat the encounter he is talking about back in 2.1, so I'm pretty sure I learn mechanics just fine.

I've been raiding for 10+ years in games like these. I think I can recognize well done mechanics from those that are just intentionally designed to screw players. Given the previous focus of the game, that encounter was designed specifically to waste a ton of time, and for all the wrong reasons.

[saeedaisspecial]

In 2.1, if your group failed to dodge a single dive bomb, you were done. Period. There was no recovery. It was a guaranteed wipe. One or two people failing to dodge is recoverable. You are playing that same encounter with much higher item levels, thus buffing your hp. Not to mention there are more than enough people around who have done the fight regularly to keep the wiping at a minimum by now.

My point still stands. The curve on leveling content was way too low and stuff like the Twin dive bombs had no prior proxy to be compared to. Stone Vigil boss doesn't count because of telegraphs, so players were just trained to look down at the ground when things go flying in the air. Enough said.

The ignorance is astounding.
No AoE in Twintania is given any ground marker as indication. This should be your first sign to look elsewhere for enemy attacks.
The very first things in Turn 5 you fight, the Wyvern adds, use Liquid Hell with no AoE ground marker. Next, you get introduced with phase 2, which tells you that you'll be getting markers above your head as indicators as what to do.
When you add both of these two things together, phase 3 (this is the one with the divebomby things!) is simply a combination of the two things you have previously learned.

For whatever reason, with all the information available online, and your supposed 10 years of raid experience you weren't able to put two and two together.

[Tyurru]

If you're moaning about divebombs in T5 you will never survive T9 never mind the previous turns before it.
Next it will be "AMG RAVENS HITS TO HARD NERF PLZ" followed by "Why do I have to move when I get lighting on me during P4 its so OP AMG I just want to auto attack the boss and watch Spongebob"

P.S A MASSIVE marker comes above the players head during divebombs, go to Specsavers if you have trouble seeing it.

[Fendred]

The ignorance is astounding.

All the abilities prior to dive bombs are completely unrelated to dive bombs. There are fights, like the first boss in SV, who use a mix of telegraphed and non-telegraphed attacks. There is no precedence early in the fight to indicate Twin would even use such an attack. Only way to know about dive bombs is to read about it or experience the fight. And since a new player trying to draw on his previous experience with similar mechanics will lead him to failure, yeah, its a guaranteed death.

The best of new players would probably be hit by the attack a bare minimum of two times before he starts to dodge properly. First time its just going to one shot him and he's going to be asking what happened. Second time he'll be looking at the sky, but will still get hit due to being unable to react fast enough. Third time he'd have a chance at dodging it.

[saeedaisspecial]

All the abilities prior to dive bombs are completely unrelated to dive bombs. There are fights, like the first boss in SV, who use a mix of telegraphed and non-telegraphed attacks. There is no precedence early in the fight to indicate Twin would even use such an attack. Only way to know about dive bombs is to read about it or experience the fight.

There is no precedence anywhere else in the game that Twintania would use a move like Fireballs either.
Or that Caduceus would eat slimes to remove damage stacks.
Or that Titan would place people in Gaols.
Or that ADS would do Rot
Or that mechanic you fought for the first time would actually be a mechanic.
The first time you encounter a new mechanic, you will always be thrown off guard, this is the nature of mechanics. By complaining about SE introducing new mechanics you may as well ask them to stop making new ones.
The fact is, there was enough information in the first two phases to let you know that something like Divebombs may occur.

The best of new players would probably be hit by the attack a bare minimum of two times before he starts to dodge properly. First time its just going to one shot him and he's going to be asking what happened. Second time he'll be looking at the sky, but will still get hit due to being unable to react fast enough. Third time he'd have a chance at dodging it.

This entire paragraph... What.
I just don't even. The way you're posting and arguing is as if you think every encounter should be defeatable by a group of players all going through blind.
You are supposed to die and figure out mechanics, that is the entire point of raiding. You need to learn, you need to practice, you need to figure out how to deal with the mechanics.
If it were possible to instantly pass mechanics then the fight would be unsuitable for raiding.

[Fendred]

If you're moaning about divebombs in T5 you will never survive T9 never mind the previous turns before it.
Next it will be "AMG RAVENS HITS TO HARD NERF PLZ" followed by "Why do I have to move when I get lighting on me during P4 its so OP AMG I just want to auto attack the boss and watch Spongebob"

P.S A MASSIVE marker comes above the players head during divebombs, go to Specsavers if you have trouble seeing it.

Already beat it back in 2.1. Its old news to me. I'm complaining as a person who knows how to do the fight, but doesn't really like the thing all that much. Also, you don't know cheap unless you did Twintania back in 2.0. The twisters, Duke, the twisters!

[SongJoohee]

Regardless, no one entering that fight for the first time is going to know jack about how to do that or if it is even possible. On top of which they will have no practice in doing so. In effect, no, it is not easy because players are trained by the game to look down on the battlefield, not up at the sky. I'd definitely call that a cheap shot.

They built the dive bombs to 100% of the time cause wipes on every party who ever enters the fight for the first time. That is the definition of a cheap shot in my book.

Can't wait for you to try Turn 9

[Fendred]

There is no precedence anywhere else in the game that Twintania would use a move like Fireballs either.
Or that Caduceus would eat slimes to remove damage stacks.
Or that Titan would place people in Gaols...

Hold on now, you were originally stating that it should be plainly obvious to a person who has never seen or heard of the fight before, but has done all previous content would automatically assume that all of Twintania's attacks will be without telegraphs simply by seeing his first two phases. That was what my comment was directed at. Your examples of Cad and ADS don't really count here because new players are literate enough in the UI and on what buffs and debuffs are by the time they reach those encounters.

The difference between Allagan Rot and Dive Bombs is that with Allagan Rot, after the players die once, they are formulating a strategy to deal with it. Those same new players exposed to Dive Bombs are learning for the first time how to use the camera to keep track of an arial target and dodge its non-telegraphed attacks. In example one they are learning to deal with a mechanic. In example 2 they are fighting the controls while trying to do the same thing. That shouldn't happen in an end game encounter if the earlier content did what it was supposed to do.

That's all I've been saying. Why is the concept of new players fighting controls they were never taught to use up to that point so hard for my fellow hardcore gamers to understand?

[saeedaisspecial]

Hold on now, you were originally stating that it should be plainly obvious to a person who has never seen or heard of the fight before, but has done all previous content would automatically assume that all of Twintania's attacks will be without telegraphs simply by seeing his first two phases. Also, the game did nothing to make players literate enough in the camera controls to properly analyze the attack. Your examples of Cad and ADS don't really count here because new players are literate enough in the UI and on what buffs and debuffs are by the time they reach those encounters.

The difference between Allagan Rot and Dive Bombs is that with Allagan Rot, after they die once, they are figuring out a strategy to deal with it. Those same new players exposed to Dive Bombs are learning for the first time how to use the camera to keep track of an arial target and dodge its non-telegraphed attacks. In example one they are learning to deal with a mechanic. In example 2 they are fighting the controls while trying to do the same thing. That shouldn't happen in an end game encounter if the earlier content did what it was supposed to do perfectly.

That's all I've been saying. Why is the concept of new players fighting controls they were never taught to use up to that point so hard for my fellow hardcore gamers to understand?

My point was that you're constantly going to be thrown with new mechanics, where each one will kill you if you fail to perform them. That is the entire nature of mechanics. If you don't perform them, you die.
I never said it should be "plainly obvious", I said that you should be expecting something like that. There is a huge difference.
By saying things such as:

They built the dive bombs to 100% of the time cause wipes on every party who ever enters the fight for the first time. That is the definition of a cheap shot in my book.

You are acting as if mechanics should be performable on the first encounter, which is ridiculous. There are lots of mechanics in this game that are going to kill you the first time you see them.
There are also lots of mechanics that exist in their own bubbles that never appear outside of those specific fights. That is how you keep the fights fresh. Coil is pretty much saying from the get go "You are going to see things you've never seen anywhere before".
I can't wait to see you go into Turn 6 and then complain that Blighted Bouquet is killing you. I can see it now "What the hell! No where in the game do I have to stop doing anything!"
To a lot of players, figuring out these mechanics is the most interesting part of the entire fight. If we knew everything was coming beforehand, it would be incredibly boring.

[Hybris-Maenad]

My point still stands. The curve on leveling content was way too low and stuff like the Twin dive bombs had no prior proxy to be compared to.

You would think that any group that was able to even get to divebombs would figure out that something appearing over someones head would indicate that something dangerous was about to happen.

You have no argument whatsoever, just go. You're obviously unable to pick up on game mechanics. If you're having a problem in duty finder, it's probably because of you.