Please re-evaluate the difficulty of previous endgame content on the DF

[Dwill]

4 manned by 4 people in full 110 gear / second coil loot. yeah that counts.. for the love of god the Bard has 7k hp..

Actually, it does counts. 8 people in i95-i100 and full Echo have much more room for mistakes.

[Fendred]

Harsh anger for no reason

"Twintania is out of view you can't see which way it divebombs for one even with camera zoomed out."

Incorrect, You have to angle and adjust your camera(super easy) and you can see where twin is coming from. however you can always see her if you want to.

Regardless, no one entering that fight for the first time is going to know jack about how to do that or if it is even possible. On top of which they will have no practice in doing so. In effect, no, it is not easy because players are trained by the game to look down on the battlefield, not up at the sky. I'd definitely call that a cheap shot.

They built the dive bombs to 100% of the time cause wipes on every party who ever enters the fight for the first time. That is the definition of a cheap shot in my book.

[Dwill]

They built the dive bombs to 100% of the time cause wipes on every party who ever enters the fight for the first time. That is the definition of a cheap shot in my book.

Nearly every raid bosses in MMOs are built so that people will wipe if they don't know what to expect. I don't know how this comes as a shocker to you.

[Hybris-Maenad]

They built the dive bombs to 100% of the time cause wipes on every party who ever enters the fight for the first time. That is the definition of a cheap shot in my book.

Having to figure out and learn a mechanic is a cheap shot?

Really dude, just stay out of endgame if something like this seems unreasonable to you. This is not the kind of game you want it to be.

[Urielparadox]

...it is not easy because players are trained by the game to look down on the battlefield, not up at the sky.
They built the dive bombs to 100% of the time cause wipes on every party who ever enters the fight for the first time....

Originally a tank not buffed for death sentence, with stone skin from healers twintania would 1 shot the tank, this is way more a cheap shot. in stone vigil you can angle your camera to see the dragon in the sky, and will appear before the blue outline does. that dungeon taught me that I can follow even flying mobs. As a rule of thumb I try to always keep eyes on the boss my first time in a fight, that doesn't mean you ignore everything else . However Coil is not the first time we have instant wipes, Titan HM was much worse, ifrit not killing nails... you go into a fight there are many mechanics that can wipe you. There are many dungeons, and bosses with instant wipes you one could argue you wouldn't know about on your first time, sunken temple of quarn, AV, Stone temple, Brayflox nm. Try playing back at launch when no one knew anything about how to do these dungeons. Each dungeon teach you the basic, and every couple of dungeons there is one that kinda puts things together and makes combos out of previous mechanics. If you pay attention enough you can learn tips that help out later.

[Fendred]

Having to figure out and learn a mechanic is a cheap shot?

Really dude, just stay out of endgame if something like this seems unreasonable to you. This is not the kind of game you want it to be.

If every fight involving a flying monster up until that point involved telegraphs on the ground combined with the fact the dive bomb will one shot the players if they do not respond at max pace, yes, it is a cheap shot.

It isn't a matter of skill if the game didn't do anything up until that point to render such a skill necessary. That's like putting a guy with no boxing experience into the ring with Mohammed Ali and expecting him not to be KOed in under 30 seconds. Seriously?

Again, blame the ridiculously low difficulty curve on leveling content. That is the reason these problems even exist.

[Urielparadox]

If every fight involving a flying monster up until that point involved telegraphs on the ground combined with the fact the dive bomb will one shot the players if they do not respond at max pace, yes, it is a cheap shot.

.

umm wrong also I corrected that statement already and you ignored it. Divebomb does not do enough damage at all to 1 shot players pre echo, the players would have to be knocked backwards, which if they are even just a few steps forward they will be knocked forward, and not into a wall, and thus not killed.

Divebombs are also a phase where if someone dies, raise them it's a very easy phase to do it.
My question to you is this, because i'm extremely confused right now, Why haven't you read a guide or watch a video? If you are going at this blind, and learning blind. expect to put in as much or more time as the people who first go the victory did, what your asking for is to go into a hard dungeon, and beat it as if it was a lvl 50 dungeon, and your going in at i110, with no mechanics in the whole fight, simply because you don't want to read a guide.......................................................................... not only do you not want help from anyone, you don't also don't want to learn a fight, and you can't think of ways to handle mechanics. You said yourself, moving your camera to see the boss is just to wild of a concept for you... even though you did it on every primal, and in every turn prior to t5.

[ValkyrieL]

You must understand that DF is NOT for clearing difficult content. You the user are partially to blame for trying to clear T5,EX via DF when the fastest route would probably be getting in a active FC, L2, and CONSTANTLY join/make PF For T5/EX.
you will eventually meet competent players in PF that are able to get to twister, send them a Tell after is all done/add to friend list till u eventually get enough people to clear it.
The PROBLEM with DF is that this game is constantly getting NEW 50's or lazy players that will DF T5/EX and have absolutely not clue on what they are doing. they never look at a guide/watch a video. and it only takes this ONE person to fck everything up, specially if is a healer/tank.

[Fendred]

umm wrong also I corrected that statement already and you ignored it. Divebomb does not do enough damage at all to 1 shot players pre echo, the players would have to be knocked backwards, which if they are even just a few steps forward they will be knocked forward, and not into a wall, and thus not killed.

In 2.1, if your group failed to dodge a single dive bomb, you were done. Period. There was no recovery. It was a guaranteed wipe. One or two people failing to dodge is recoverable. You are playing that same encounter with much higher item levels, thus buffing your hp. Not to mention there are more than enough people around who have done the fight regularly to keep the wiping at a minimum by now.

My point still stands. The curve on leveling content was way too low and stuff like the Twin dive bombs had no prior proxy to be compared to. Stone Vigil boss doesn't count because of telegraphs, so players were just trained to look down at the ground when things go flying in the air. Enough said.

[Sove92]

In 2.1, if your group failed to dodge a single dive bomb, you were done. Period. There was no recovery. It was a guaranteed wipe. One or two people failing to dodge is recoverable. You are playing that same encounter with much higher item levels, thus buffing your hp. Not to mention there are more than enough people around who have done the fight regularly to keep the wiping at a minimum by now.

My point still stands. The curve on leveling content was way too low and stuff like the Twin dive bombs had no prior proxy to be compared to. Stone Vigil boss doesn't count because of telegraphs, so players were just trained to look down at the ground when things go flying in the air. Enough said.

Had that happen, still won. Your point fails. If you don't want to learn mechanics, you need to stay out of endgame. If the game gave you a telegraph telling you to get out for every mechanic, there would be no difficulty.