Please re-evaluate the difficulty of previous endgame content on the DF

[Welsper59]

Since you mentioned Twintania, here you go, 4 manned.

http://youtu.be/_anqI7oY7nc

People keep forgetting to actually learn a fight, part of an MMO. Finding people to do that with, part of an MMO.

This is part of the reason I wish we can enter dungeons without using DF. It's so much fun to under-man stuff, and you really don't trivialize anything... in fact, you more often make it harder for yourself in doing so. There may be a few fights where less is easier, but they probably also come with enrage mechanics.

I can sort of understand the aspect of preventing people from finding ways to solo things like leveling dungeons, but honestly... if they're enjoying what you make in a way that does NOT harm the game for others, it's really not a big deal. Heck, in many lights, it's least efficient to do it that way anyway. I soloed places like Haukke Manor normal as my SCH while leveling, and it was a lot of fun. Efficient to level with? Hell no, although it was still pretty damn decent given the enjoyment.

[Havenchild]

I'm not sure why people really say twin was nerfed to the ground. The fight was much more mechanics based then purely DPS check and it still is. Echo only lightened some DPS efforts and with slightly less mob HPs. T5 wasn't really made that much easier. You still die to conflags +fireballs , twisters, divebombs, dreadknights, not much that a slight HP nerf to snakes influences.

[Felessan]

Many of the older endgame encounters on DF (Extremes, Turn5) are arguably too difficult for successful completion even with the full echo buff.

The content *gradually* made easier. You not only getting Echo buff, you are also increase overgear as time goes forward. As well as number of educated people.
Let's take Titan HM for example. It was hard in 2.0, relatively hard in 2.1. Even at the beginning of 2.2 (already with Echo) 2-3 out of 5 DF parties fails to kill it in 2-3 tries and party breaks up. Now I rarely see even a single wipe, it's completely passable with just 3-4 people staying alive, especially if you managed to kill heart.

Titan EX is one of the most unforgiving fights in the game, and Square rightly concluded that the inability to get a group together without at least one person incapable of running out of the death cookies should not be a roadblock to challenging newer content with a very different required set of skills.

All SCoB fights much more unforgivable as one person mistake not only might lead to death of said person, but also the rest of party will get consequences.
In T6 Rafflesia buffs for damage every time person got eaten, in T7 there are so much insta-kill petrification mechanics, in T8 rockets, binds, improper tower activations, allagan field - all of them can wipe party even if only one person at fail. And in T9... almost every mechanics will lead to problems for whole party even if only one person unskilled and ignorant.

The fight was much more mechanics based then purely DPS check and it still is. Echo only lightened some DPS efforts and with slightly less mob HPs. T5 wasn't really made that much easier. You still die to conflags +fireballs , twisters, divebombs, dreadknights, not much that a slight HP nerf to snakes influences.

The fight is so much easier with echo and gear upgrade. Now you really only need to watch out for divebombs and twisters. You can pass it with mediocre preforming players, you can easily carry people through it.
With 100+ weapon and buff it's requires significant underperformance from DPS to not kill conflag/snakes/knights in time. With all that buffed HP you can miss 2 or 3 hits by fireball on last phase and still be fine. Tank with all new gear and echo can just stand at twintania even if he is a target for fireballs and survive without HG. You have zero chance to see enrage now.
The only things that really stays are oneshot mechanics and before it was only part of fight and even not the biggest one.

[Dwill]

I'm not sure why people really say twin was nerfed to the ground. The fight was much more mechanics based then purely DPS check and it still is. Echo only lightened some DPS efforts and with slightly less mob HPs. T5 wasn't really made that much easier. You still die to conflags +fireballs , twisters, divebombs, dreadknights, not much that a slight HP nerf to snakes influences.

If people can 4 man it now, I'm sure 8 persons putting some semblance of effort can do it.

[KagatoAC]

Since you mentioned Twintania, here you go, 4 manned.

http://youtu.be/_anqI7oY7nc

People keep forgetting to actually learn a fight, part of an MMO. Finding people to do that with, part of an MMO.

4 manned by 4 people in full 110 gear / second coil loot. yeah that counts.. for the love of god the Bard has 7k hp..

[HeroSamson]

4 manned by 4 people in full 110 gear / second coil loot. yeah that counts.. for the love of god the Bard has 7k hp..

I noticed that also, also less people to worry about a whole party I say this because they had time to put the fireballs into the conflag with a 8 man the conflag appears and if you don't kill it in time the person dies or you'd be lucky to get a fireball to increase the time.

[Cyrus-Wallace]

4 manned by 4 people in full 110 gear / second coil loot. yeah that counts.. for the love of god the Bard has 7k hp..

And judging by the timer (check the top-left corner), it took some time to win that fight with that setting. Nothing to brag about, tho, the gear in that video is an obvious overkill for that content.

In any case, I see a lot of people and groups struggling with T5. I don't know what the heck are you people talking about. If your group can manage it, it doesn't mean that everybody can! We usually queue up for T5 with a 7/8 to help an unfortunate soul to get their win. But, it wouldn't be a surprise if that content gets nerfed. That would be lame, since T5 is still a fun fight, imo.

[Raffounz]

Twintania is a joke these days... We usually 7-man this even at full 90. We left ppl out of the fire wall for safer carry. We solo healed and tanked it in 7 minutes. We solo tanked with a warrior, only a stun to dreadkinght... Even divebombs are recoverable now, the only killer mechanic is still Twister.

[Purplenum]

bla bla bla im a scrub

Your character has a really round face, I think you should re-evaluate your characters looks before asking for free handouts.

[Havenchild]

snip

Grave misconception on what actually is in PF and DF for this instance.

Im fully aware of the ability to carry people through it assuming majority knows how to do the fight. I've been in PF's where I know for sure 3 others have downed the fight while the rest have yet to but are on "a strikes policy" or much have "experience for the whole fight", and yet people are still dying on conflags because they dont break in time(multiple people got hit). Divebombs you can survive the direct damage from the hit that is. Can you survive a divebomb that hits you into the wall? I think not.

Dread still wont die, if enough DPS gets K.O'd from twisters even with gear.

Perfect players can do wonders on the instance and with the gear fewer of those are needed assuming all other "carry" party members are dead. However when you factor in enough newer players (especially DPS), even the few experienced cant carry that run. It is not uncommon to see people below 200 on snake phase with 4 stacks even with Echo.