Please re-evaluate the difficulty of previous endgame content on the DF

[Urielparadox]

Harsh anger for no reason

"Twintania is out of view you can't see which way it divebombs for one even with camera zoomed out."

Incorrect, You have to angle and adjust your camera(super easy) and you can see where twin is coming from. however you can always see her if you want to.

"People press up perfectly against the wall, though even when the icon appears and everyone runs out perfect they end up being hit."

Wrong as long as everyone is in the right place it won't randomly screw up. There are certain players that have a habit of standing too far forward, and when divebombs hit the party accuses everyone else and says hes not to far forward. refusing to adjust himself, repeatedly causing wipes. The problem is he likes to sit right at the line and so sometimes hes just .1cm too far forward and he refuses to go further back because hes scared he will hit the wall.

"Echo buff don't make me laugh, that is a smoke screen to make you feel comfortable there is no way it helps out with this fight."

completely wrong, this makes death sentence a joke and impossible to 1 shot the tank. It makes conflags something you don't have to worry about, assuming your dps react and attack conflags. If you think it's a smokescreen, then lol, their are multiple 1 shot mechanics, that are no longer 1 shot, their are dps checks, that will can't really be called dps checks with this much of a boost. The only thing I see people die to now are mechanics such as divebombs and twisters.

"ps3 or someone who may still have a GT graphics card or use a laptop that doesn't run at 60 frame per sec will not see things exactly as you see them, when the icon appears it could be late for them causing people to move slow."

This is partially true however these players know the problem exists with their system and compensate. I used to play at 32 fps when I first downed t5 because my hard drive was corrupted. Fixed up my laptop now i'm at 52, and in twintania no issues. Dive bombs give plenty of warning even at 32 fps to dodge, titan does not though. I use to have to fight titan almost purely on memory because if I reacted when stuff appeared I would be dead, but I still got win.

"What cracks me up is the ones who won, those people probably weeded out the bad players and went to PF for a easy no hassle run and act like they are bad ass but suck because they have to rely on other good players to pass something."
I have won with my static, I have helped others, I weeded out players that I didn't work well with, or after 15runs was the only person failing divebombs, failing twisters, other reasons the player need to pay attention, to get my first win, then I took my knowledge and I helped others who I do work well with get the win, so they could teach their group the fight.
"I wouldn't gloat if I were you, try beating it with some messed up players or no chat program then come gloat. "

We have FC members who don't use Chat programs, and I have had wins in pugs and helping people, with people who don't. Why? because I can respond without someone else calling things out.

[Fendred]

Harsh anger for no reason

"Twintania is out of view you can't see which way it divebombs for one even with camera zoomed out."

Incorrect, You have to angle and adjust your camera(super easy) and you can see where twin is coming from. however you can always see her if you want to.

Regardless, no one entering that fight for the first time is going to know jack about how to do that or if it is even possible. On top of which they will have no practice in doing so. In effect, no, it is not easy because players are trained by the game to look down on the battlefield, not up at the sky. I'd definitely call that a cheap shot.

They built the dive bombs to 100% of the time cause wipes on every party who ever enters the fight for the first time. That is the definition of a cheap shot in my book.

[Dwill]

They built the dive bombs to 100% of the time cause wipes on every party who ever enters the fight for the first time. That is the definition of a cheap shot in my book.

Nearly every raid bosses in MMOs are built so that people will wipe if they don't know what to expect. I don't know how this comes as a shocker to you.

[Hybris-Maenad]

They built the dive bombs to 100% of the time cause wipes on every party who ever enters the fight for the first time. That is the definition of a cheap shot in my book.

Having to figure out and learn a mechanic is a cheap shot?

Really dude, just stay out of endgame if something like this seems unreasonable to you. This is not the kind of game you want it to be.

[Fendred]

Having to figure out and learn a mechanic is a cheap shot?

Really dude, just stay out of endgame if something like this seems unreasonable to you. This is not the kind of game you want it to be.

If every fight involving a flying monster up until that point involved telegraphs on the ground combined with the fact the dive bomb will one shot the players if they do not respond at max pace, yes, it is a cheap shot.

It isn't a matter of skill if the game didn't do anything up until that point to render such a skill necessary. That's like putting a guy with no boxing experience into the ring with Mohammed Ali and expecting him not to be KOed in under 30 seconds. Seriously?

Again, blame the ridiculously low difficulty curve on leveling content. That is the reason these problems even exist.

[Urielparadox]

If every fight involving a flying monster up until that point involved telegraphs on the ground combined with the fact the dive bomb will one shot the players if they do not respond at max pace, yes, it is a cheap shot.

.

umm wrong also I corrected that statement already and you ignored it. Divebomb does not do enough damage at all to 1 shot players pre echo, the players would have to be knocked backwards, which if they are even just a few steps forward they will be knocked forward, and not into a wall, and thus not killed.

Divebombs are also a phase where if someone dies, raise them it's a very easy phase to do it.
My question to you is this, because i'm extremely confused right now, Why haven't you read a guide or watch a video? If you are going at this blind, and learning blind. expect to put in as much or more time as the people who first go the victory did, what your asking for is to go into a hard dungeon, and beat it as if it was a lvl 50 dungeon, and your going in at i110, with no mechanics in the whole fight, simply because you don't want to read a guide.......................................................................... not only do you not want help from anyone, you don't also don't want to learn a fight, and you can't think of ways to handle mechanics. You said yourself, moving your camera to see the boss is just to wild of a concept for you... even though you did it on every primal, and in every turn prior to t5.

[Fendred]

umm wrong also I corrected that statement already and you ignored it. Divebomb does not do enough damage at all to 1 shot players pre echo, the players would have to be knocked backwards, which if they are even just a few steps forward they will be knocked forward, and not into a wall, and thus not killed.

In 2.1, if your group failed to dodge a single dive bomb, you were done. Period. There was no recovery. It was a guaranteed wipe. One or two people failing to dodge is recoverable. You are playing that same encounter with much higher item levels, thus buffing your hp. Not to mention there are more than enough people around who have done the fight regularly to keep the wiping at a minimum by now.

My point still stands. The curve on leveling content was way too low and stuff like the Twin dive bombs had no prior proxy to be compared to. Stone Vigil boss doesn't count because of telegraphs, so players were just trained to look down at the ground when things go flying in the air. Enough said.

[Sove92]

In 2.1, if your group failed to dodge a single dive bomb, you were done. Period. There was no recovery. It was a guaranteed wipe. One or two people failing to dodge is recoverable. You are playing that same encounter with much higher item levels, thus buffing your hp. Not to mention there are more than enough people around who have done the fight regularly to keep the wiping at a minimum by now.

My point still stands. The curve on leveling content was way too low and stuff like the Twin dive bombs had no prior proxy to be compared to. Stone Vigil boss doesn't count because of telegraphs, so players were just trained to look down at the ground when things go flying in the air. Enough said.

Had that happen, still won. Your point fails. If you don't want to learn mechanics, you need to stay out of endgame. If the game gave you a telegraph telling you to get out for every mechanic, there would be no difficulty.

[saeedaisspecial]

In 2.1, if your group failed to dodge a single dive bomb, you were done. Period. There was no recovery. It was a guaranteed wipe. One or two people failing to dodge is recoverable. You are playing that same encounter with much higher item levels, thus buffing your hp. Not to mention there are more than enough people around who have done the fight regularly to keep the wiping at a minimum by now.

My point still stands. The curve on leveling content was way too low and stuff like the Twin dive bombs had no prior proxy to be compared to. Stone Vigil boss doesn't count because of telegraphs, so players were just trained to look down at the ground when things go flying in the air. Enough said.

The ignorance is astounding.
No AoE in Twintania is given any ground marker as indication. This should be your first sign to look elsewhere for enemy attacks.
The very first things in Turn 5 you fight, the Wyvern adds, use Liquid Hell with no AoE ground marker. Next, you get introduced with phase 2, which tells you that you'll be getting markers above your head as indicators as what to do.
When you add both of these two things together, phase 3 (this is the one with the divebomby things!) is simply a combination of the two things you have previously learned.

For whatever reason, with all the information available online, and your supposed 10 years of raid experience you weren't able to put two and two together.

[Hybris-Maenad]

My point still stands. The curve on leveling content was way too low and stuff like the Twin dive bombs had no prior proxy to be compared to.

You would think that any group that was able to even get to divebombs would figure out that something appearing over someones head would indicate that something dangerous was about to happen.

You have no argument whatsoever, just go. You're obviously unable to pick up on game mechanics. If you're having a problem in duty finder, it's probably because of you.