I cant explain the maount of people I see messing stuff up in DF, as a tank its easiest for me to see DPS and when I see dragoons using only full thrust combos or monks never moving form the flank...they just aren't trying, and I dont think its fair to hand wins to people who have no intention of trying, that would takes away the point entirely. They have been nerfed, we have echo, we have better gear. It's more than enough, I just wish people would stop watching tv while raiding extreme+ content -_-