Please re-evaluate the difficulty of previous endgame content on the DF

[Sove92]

The only even remotely difficult part in T5 is to keep up the DPS for conflags, snakes and dreadknight (and you have a 20% damage boost for that). There is nothing difficult in moving up the ditch when a green marker shows up and then go back down when Divebomb has finished, repeat twice and another 3 times soon after. There is nothing difficult in moving and not tracing back your, or another player's steps when Twister is casting, either. There is nothing difficult for OT to just stand in the neurolink in last phase and use cooldowns when targeted by Liquid Hell. There's nothing difficult in running along the edges when targeted by Liquid Hell.

It's just bad players being bad. The only thing T5 will unlock for you is the second coil (the loot is outdated by easier to get gear already), which is harder than T5. Twintania is the gatekeeper boss of second coil, and if you cannot beat her, you have no business in second coil anyway. No nerf needed. And T5 should either have no echo, or second coil should require an echoless T5 clear, that way you have proven you can actually have a chance in second coil.

[PArcher]

I remember my first Ifrit EX clear. I was an i80 WAR way back in mid-2.1 and there was no Echo...

Now, no one even tries Ifrit EX without i90+ and at least 2 Stacks of Echo...

These old fights were completed originally by people in much weaker gear than what people have now (Ah, T1 in barely i70 gear with a Relic), and it wasn't just the hardcore that did these. Were most of the people "above average"? Yeah. But now with more gear and the Echo buffs...there should be no issues with completion.

Stop asking for carries people.

[Electrowitch]

No, no, no. They already nerfed the older Content+added Echo(Which i think is good, to let newer player catch up), BUT theres no valid reason to make it even easier. You wanna know why? It doesnt make Sense to hand out free T5 wins when the Content after it is even harder. If you think after beating Twintania you´ve passed a Huge Wall and can go on with further Content and progress there, you gonna have a baaaad time.

[Evangela]

No, no, no. They already nerfed the older Content+added Echo(Which i think is good, to let newer player catch up), BUT theres no valid reason to make it even easier. You wanna know why? It doesnt make Sense to hand out free T5 wins when the Content after it is even harder. If you think after beating Twintania you´ve passed a Huge Wall and can go on with further Content and progress there, you gonna have a baaaad time.

then nerf Second Coils too!!

[seriously]

I still think they should convert old obsolete progression content into stuff an average DF group can complete. It's not really stepping on a progression-player's toes. It's not giving casuals progression gear. It's not even about the loot, it's about having something to do outside of the dungeons. DF parties often have players who will keep the group from succeeding. And perhaps we should just kick them, but I'd rather it be a more inclusive and friendly experience. And since it's no longer the progression material I don't see why they can't afford players with similar sentiments this small favor.

Players who proceed to explain how easy the content is don't seem to grasp the level of the average player on DF right now. It's not easy content when you got players face down before the fight even gets going. Perhaps its pitiful, but alot of that old content IS still too hard for the DF.

[Ailish_Chibi]

Even with 50% echo in titan hard i have seen people dying.And i dont want to say anything about titan ex lol

[seriously]

I farmed tokens from the first 3 extremes before the echo and they seem harder now in DF than ever before. Nobody uses the PF for this stuff anymore because of those hunts.

[razzgrizz3]

they should just add a tourist mode for people like op. something with toned down one shot mechanics and no loot at the end. that way you can experience the side story at least. if you want the loot then you have to beat the real thing.
as far as echo for 2nd coil. that will create many many problems rather than solve something for weaker players since the encounters arent designed to acomodate player power inflation at all.

[VitaminMT]

they should just add a tourist mode for people like op. something with toned down one shot mechanics and no loot at the end. that way you can experience the side story at least. if you want the loot then you have to beat the real thing.

This is probably the best idea, and one that I've been shopping around for a while. Maybe just calling it Story Mode or Casual Mode, or something, I dunno.
I do think that, even with the relative nerfs to content and buffs to players, many first-timers treat DF runs as practice or training, and there's really nothing wrong with that. If you want to clear content, you should probably just throw up a PF or get some friends.

[MeiUshu]

Is echo that much of a gain ? I personally dont believe so, it helps but is not that much of a guaranteed win just because you have a 25 % HP more in the end it is only around 10-15% real HP gain.

Make it easier no not all, just increase the reaction time slightly and it should fix most of the problems and I dont speak of 2sec just even if only by half a second.

Just me though

Mei