Please re-evaluate the difficulty of previous endgame content on the DF

[Gardes]

Hey the ones who completed T5 you need to shut up, the simple fact you weeded out probably the players who had issues with T5 just to win the fight doesn't mean you are skilled, it means you took a easy route.

So why can't you? You admit that there are bad players out there in DF but you chose not to try to find the good players and keep mingling with the bad players? Why? What sense of pride would you get from beating content with these people, no, STRANGERS? What difference is there, when you roll around for dozens of hours sporadically in DF until you hit jackpot and win t5/titan ex in one duty, versus you spending dozens of hours finding people that are equal or better than you and then beating t5/titan ex in one duty with them? You're still 'wasting time'.

[HeroSamson]

snip

I stick with them till the end of time win or lose I don't leave cause I can't win.

Not really because there are no good players in this game only the ones who go in blind, because then you wouldn't rely on video, wouldn't rely on others who have already done it.

Going in blind and figuring it out those are the good players.

when you don't run something at the same framerate as everyone else expect mess ups.

To tell someone you beat it and stop asking for hand outs, what did you guys do? did you go ask other players who knew what they were doing for help? sounds like a hand out.

they pay money for SE to produce content, so them asking for something is it wrong, you beat the content right so whats the problem?

I mean SE will some how make a hard mode and a extreme probably later.

[HeroSamson]

I mean so far I have always been last to die usually, I don't get mad or throw fits but I can see others get frustrated and start to give up.

when that starts to happen, this will not only effect you, this will effect others and then nobody will have content to play because everyone is not in the same place or part that you are or haven't unlocked a thing.

How about this logging on one day finding out you been searching for a duty for 10 hours or looking for a party finder for same amount of time because nobody has stuff completed cause it will pile on.

Trust me I seen this happen in Final Fantasy 11 and people flagging up with no party's, people refusing to help cause the content was too hard or they didn't care for whatever item it drops cause they already have it.

Then people like you who do PF decide to only run with their crowd never do a duty finder on their server.

Then some of your set leaves and its hard to find others to do it with because they have a set.

I am the person who helps the people who need it the most so you guys can get players to your part of the content.

All I am saying.

Also just think of the night time players how hard it is to get into dungeons but finally getting one and dying then having to sit there for another 2 hours I mean not worth the money if you ask me.

[Urielparadox]

Harsh anger for no reason

"Twintania is out of view you can't see which way it divebombs for one even with camera zoomed out."

Incorrect, You have to angle and adjust your camera(super easy) and you can see where twin is coming from. however you can always see her if you want to.

"People press up perfectly against the wall, though even when the icon appears and everyone runs out perfect they end up being hit."

Wrong as long as everyone is in the right place it won't randomly screw up. There are certain players that have a habit of standing too far forward, and when divebombs hit the party accuses everyone else and says hes not to far forward. refusing to adjust himself, repeatedly causing wipes. The problem is he likes to sit right at the line and so sometimes hes just .1cm too far forward and he refuses to go further back because hes scared he will hit the wall.

"Echo buff don't make me laugh, that is a smoke screen to make you feel comfortable there is no way it helps out with this fight."

completely wrong, this makes death sentence a joke and impossible to 1 shot the tank. It makes conflags something you don't have to worry about, assuming your dps react and attack conflags. If you think it's a smokescreen, then lol, their are multiple 1 shot mechanics, that are no longer 1 shot, their are dps checks, that will can't really be called dps checks with this much of a boost. The only thing I see people die to now are mechanics such as divebombs and twisters.

"ps3 or someone who may still have a GT graphics card or use a laptop that doesn't run at 60 frame per sec will not see things exactly as you see them, when the icon appears it could be late for them causing people to move slow."

This is partially true however these players know the problem exists with their system and compensate. I used to play at 32 fps when I first downed t5 because my hard drive was corrupted. Fixed up my laptop now i'm at 52, and in twintania no issues. Dive bombs give plenty of warning even at 32 fps to dodge, titan does not though. I use to have to fight titan almost purely on memory because if I reacted when stuff appeared I would be dead, but I still got win.

"What cracks me up is the ones who won, those people probably weeded out the bad players and went to PF for a easy no hassle run and act like they are bad ass but suck because they have to rely on other good players to pass something."
I have won with my static, I have helped others, I weeded out players that I didn't work well with, or after 15runs was the only person failing divebombs, failing twisters, other reasons the player need to pay attention, to get my first win, then I took my knowledge and I helped others who I do work well with get the win, so they could teach their group the fight.
"I wouldn't gloat if I were you, try beating it with some messed up players or no chat program then come gloat. "

We have FC members who don't use Chat programs, and I have had wins in pugs and helping people, with people who don't. Why? because I can respond without someone else calling things out.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

snip

Sorry, but I disagree :/ A single mistake by someone in Melusine means an instant wipe. This is hardly true for Titan. A mistake can make you fall down, yes, but the encounter can still be completed by your companions especially with the echo buff and the current ilvl.

If you screw up during Melusine, the entire party is most likely done for.

Fail at not stoning your party? Wipe.
Fail at stoning renauds? Wipe.
Fail at Petrifaction? Wipe.
Fail at not dispelling the debuff? Wipe.

The only thing Titan EX can do to wipe the party is its Ultimate, and the dps check on the heart is a collective effort, not a personal one, so it's more lenient than 90% of Melusine mechanics.

[Divine_Intervention]

Anyone who hasn't cleared the first 5 turns of coil or the original 3 EX primals at this point is not interested or capable of completing them as originally intended. The only reason they haven't been nerfed further is because the equipment is still technically useful. By 2.4 none of that content will offer useable equipment so it should be nerfed to the point that no effort is required.

1) People who haven't cleared it by this point - No. Some, like myself, have just beaten titan ex, after a month of grinding it and learning it, and developing a good party. Have just started T5 with said group, we'll get it done.

2) 2.4 none of that content will offer useable - You're really forgetting the fact that at patches, we see a big increase of new players, they are going to be going through it again.
3) Nerf to the point no effort is required - Hell no. People have had enough hand holding done recently. Where's the achievement in it. I personally remove any echo buffs possible when i fight this stuff.

[Seibah]

ps3 or someone who may still have a GT graphics card or use a laptop that doesn't run at 60 frame per sec will not see things exactly as you see them, when the icon appears it could be late for them causing people to move slow.

I've farmed Twintania while on PS3 while listening to music (so no speak programs)

it's literally just called focus target and watching the cast bar

that completely trivializes divebombs and twisters, there's really no excuses besides not paying attention

[Gardes]

Sorry, but I disagree :/

I'm gonna have to disagree with you too. Accidental stoning doesn't always lead to a wipe. It depends who got stoned. One of our last t7s, I ran as a dragoon and got accidentally stoned by the bard, barely missing the tank. Twice in one attempt and we still won it. They give you up to 8 seconds to reach to the stoning debuffs. Way more than enough for someone with across the globe latency like me. No such thing with titan ex, gotta memorize the patterns and react pre-emptively. You ask me what melusine's rotation is, if there is one, I wouldn't know. They can all be reacted to on the spot. Circle blade doesnt even hurt that much. Melees can easily regain lost hp for not dodging it with bloodbath and no heals.

Sure, titan ex doesnt always guarantee a wipe if a few member goes off the cliff, but that still depends on who gets shot off the platform too. Plus the slide aoe is big and there's also bombs that also tends to catch multiple people. Yeah sure, t7 has mechanics designed to cause a wipe intentionally, so does t8 but that turn requires much much less twitch reaction and depends way less on the player's latency. Plus you're taking echo into account. It's just not a fair comparison.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you too. [...] Plus you're taking echo into account. It's just not a fair comparison.

I guess it all comes down to personal experience, then.

At any rate, we are talking about the situation NOW, so the presence of echo in extreme primals cannot be disregarded. Echo is already a huge buff to dps, healing and tank checks, which is of course not present in Second Coil.

Content IS ALREADY easier than how it was at the beginning.
Where do we draw the line? At what point can we finally say "ok, this can't really get more easier than this without completely destroying the nature of the encounter"?

Honestly, no matter how much you nerf content, there will ALWAYS be someone who finds it too difficult despite all the nerfs. And while I absolutely agree on the fact that older content should become progressively easier as time goes on (which is something that naturally happens due to ilvl increase), I do not think that everything should become 100% faceroll.
It's just counterproductive and definitely not fun. If SE nerfs extreme primals or t5 more, in a short while we will have hordes of people whining that t6 is too hard. Then t7. Then t8. And on and on and on.

Hell, it's not even a matter of being casual or not. At this point it's just a matter of being able to ****ing play a game that does not ask you to just slam your cat against the keyboard.
My FC is not hardcore by any stretch of imagination, we are all adults with real life relationships and full time jobs - yet we are on t9, after of course months of sweating and swearing. What good would it do having easier content? We would just burn out quicker and we would end up finding another game to play.

Making things too easy is detrimental, in the long run.

[abzoluut]

Since you mentioned Twintania, here you go, 4 manned.

http://youtu.be/_anqI7oY7nc

People keep forgetting to actually learn a fight, part of an MMO. Finding people to do that with, part of an MMO.