Simplicity over complexity, time to change.

[Ignaetious]

There's not really much I can say that hasn't already been said in this thread, but I just wanted to say that I support what the OP is saying. Do I think it will happen, I am really starting to doubt it. I think the game needs to be more layered, you can have complexity without frustration or tedium, all it means is multiple paths to the same means, an illusion of choice even. Whether or not it is ultimately pointless or not, it gives a game flavor.

Also I have seriously never played an MMO where that the solo content, and I'm not talking hunts or anything, is so blitheringly easy. don't get me wrong I enjoy the game for what it is, I would just like to have something to do in the game (outside of grouping) that is at least somewhat challenging. And I would love to see cool gear and items, that actually does interesting stuff. Just for the sake of being interesting even.

[Exstal]

OP you haven't even beat coil 1 or even tried coil 2 according to the lodestone profile. Those fights are much more complex then anything that was in 1.0 Before complaining about 2.0 content I would suggest you actually try and do it.

I think 2.0 is great it doesn't need some complex stat system what we have is fine. If there was a super complex stat system someone would still just figure out the BiS set for every job and everyone would use that, thus you would have a complex system that leave the casuals even farther behind because they don't know what gear to use because the system is too complex and they don't want to read a guide where someone mathematically figured out what gear and stats are optimal.

I don't believe that if he were to defeat both first and second Coil, that it would change his stance.　It's team jump rope, I know this, you know this, everyone who plays this game seriously knows this.　There is a lack of depth in this game, that's fine for now. The time for the change will be expansion when they can realistically introduce new systems.

[Gramul]

Yoshi has done a spectacular job with the new engine and graphics, the UI, and much of the quality of life aspects of ARR. But Tanaka did a FAR better job with creating an authentic-feeling fantasy world and having the systems of the game serve that purpose. Tanaka was also much more reserved in his management of 'spectacle'. He carefully limited the amount of flashiness at the launch of the game, and would drip-feed it to players over the expected life of the game in order to always have something new to show.

Yoshi was dumping buckets of glowing weapons, gaudy armor, mounts and minions on the players from day 1. This approached can't be sustained without venturing into complete absurdity and obliterating all sense of legitimacy in the world.

The sweet spot would be to have each working on what they do best.

This deserves a hug.

[Zantetsuken]

Of course, in a perfect world... SE's next MMO would be:

• Directed by Hiroyuki Ito (worked on nearly every classic FF game, Director/Producer of FFXII/Int. Zodiak)
• Assistant Director Nobuaki Komoto (FFXI, FFXIV 1.0)
• Main Scenario/Writer: Yazumi Matsuno (Tactics Ogre, FFXII, FF:Tactics WoL, Vagrant Story)
• Planner Chief/Promotion: Naoki Yoshida (Yoshi P)
• Art direction by Akihiko Yoshida (FF Tactics, Tactics Ogre, FFXII, Vagrant Story, Bravely Default, FFIII remake,FFXIV/ARR etc.. the best artist SE has ever employed),
• Cover/Logo art by Yoshitaka Amano (must-have for any FF game)
• Soundtrack by Naoshi Mizuta (nearly every awesome track in FFXI written by him)
• Title track by Nobuo Uematsu (must-have for a FF game)
• Bonus tracks by Yasunori Mitsuda (Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, Xenogears)
• UI design by Hiroshi Minagawa (FFXII, ARR)
• Lead Programmer: Hideyuki Kasuga (ARR, although he just quit 3 days ago.. not sure why ;_; )

Tanaka is another option for Director or Assistant director, but I think Ito has a firmer grasp on the essence of Final Fantasy.

Game setting = Ivalice (before the tech age of FFXII)

Job system growth = Tactics: War of the Lions style (start as Squire or Chemist and branch out)

Players can Switch Jobs mid-combat (like FFXIII-3), but only between the adjoining jobs in the same 'branch'

Skill growth = FF9 style. Each piece of gear grants a specific skill as long as you wear it, after filling the gear meter (like spirit bonding), you learn the ability permanently. - Crafting becomes ultra-useful under this system.

Races = Hume, Viera, Bangaa, Moogles, No Mou, Seeq, Gria. (races would have slightly different job trees like Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced)

Other features of the world:
-Judges
-Jagd
-Player usable sailing ships and Airships (different sizes/cost levels available)
-'Summoner' would be a separate job from 'Evoker'. Evokers summon lesser summons as 'pets', Summoners have 'grand summons' which are one-shot mega nukes that also buff the party.
-(Evoker) Summons are taken from FFVI or FFXII-RW (Shivan, Sylph, Golem, Cait Sith, Fenrir, etc.)
-(Summoner) Summons are the classic FF summons (Ifrit, Shiva, Ramuh, Alexander, Odin, Bahamut, etc)
-Highest *lvl 90-100* Summons would be the Ivalice Espers.
-NPC fellow system, with FFXII gambits. (gambits range from basic to ultra rare)

Eh, I could go on and on...




/daydreams

[Redemption]

[*]Soundtrack by Naoshi Mizuta (nearly every awesome track in FFXI written by her)

I think Naoshi Mizuta is a man, but totally agree.... loved everything they touched in FFXI as well as other work he has done.

Edit: I believe Mizuta also worked on the 1.0 and ARR music alongside others, just not as central a role as he had in ffxi's music (now I think soken is the primary composer for ffxiv no?).

[Kazama]

Apparently I still can't post a new thread on this account or I would basically replicate this one for the sake of having a voice. This was the start of a very long post regarding challenge, complexity and horizontal progression but I decided to stop where I was and write it out in a G-Doc over more time instead and maybe blog it.

For now I will say that I completely agree with the OP and I know there are thousands of us out there who want something more than an easy, endless grind upwards. No other current MMO has an open world in which it is not possible to die short of AFKing for 30 minutes around a large pack of mobs. Personally speaking I have died once running around in FFXIV's open world and it actually made me so happy I peed a little I think. That was on the path of the 2.2 story in the Sapsaw Spawning Grounds at one of the gates. Ok ok I also killed myself Holying 8 golden fleece in crafting gear while spiritbonding but that doesn't count.

[Zantetsuken]

I think Naoshi Mizuta is a man, but totally agree.... loved everything they touched in FFXI as well as other work he has done.

Edit: I believe Mizuta also worked on the 1.0 and ARR music alongside others, just not as central a role as he had in ffxi's music (now I think soken is the primary composer for ffxiv no?).

Corrected, thanks for noticing ^^.

Yeah, certain tracks like the one in Raincatchers Gully are totally his style... fantastic.

[Magis]

Corrected, thanks for noticing ^^.

Yeah, certain tracks like the one in Raincatchers Gully are totally his style... fantastic.

Soken has made some amazing music too IMO. Lost City of Amdapor, Coerthas, Ultima fight, etc.

[Azurak]

I am moving to Destiny. It is not a real MMO but neither is XIV with all the instances. And I will actually get to explore the world!

[Zantetsuken]

snip

Too many of the game's problems lie in ARR's myopic vertical progression strategy.

Purely vertical gear (iLvl) translates to "Required" gear for parties... "iLvl XX or kick". As there is virtually no ability to compensate for bad players in endgame, group demands on, and scrutiny of each member's iLvl are further increased.

No matter how you try to add 'options' to gaining the vertical gear, people will just find the most efficient path to the highest iLvl and zerg it (see Hunts). If they can't get it in quick enough fashion, they'll complain... loudly, if they get it too quickly, everyone else will complain... loudly.

The purely vertical gear system has to go if this game has any chance of surviving long term.

The best way to do this is to have gear branch out at the level caps and grow in variety until the cap increase. At that point, it should become mostly vertical again until it reaches the next cap (eg lvl 60).

Of course, in order to make this worth it, lvl caps need to stay where they are for a long time. or some other method of upgrading the most lucrative pieces of horizontally designed gear needs to be in place. (FFXI was able to maintain gear value by locking the level cap at 75 from 2003 to 2010.. 7 years!) There was a TON of rare stuff in that game, but working towards it was totally worth it because you knew it would last... then Abyssea/FFXIV 1.0 happened and a large portion of the population left because they had effectively lost 7 years of work.

So there are many support systems and development rules that must be adopted in order to foster a more horizontal system. It's lots of work to design and balance, but it needs to happen if ARR is ever going to cultivate a sustainable player base.