Simplicity over complexity, time to change.

[Chasely]

Vertical progression is a big problem in this game. Does anyone else find it sad that our equipment's iLevels are over twice our current level, and the game is only a year old..? No wonder there are four digits. We'll hit that in no time.

[electricblues42]

I don't mind a certain gear level ratcheting up, I've seen other MMOs (gw2) where people thought they didn't want that but in the end did a LOT.

Personally I just really want something that is as challenging as coil but doesn't involve a weekly lock out. Hell, make it just give vanity stuff, I don't care. I want something hard that I can do with friends and not only the 7 others in my static, once a week. Or even better, solo content that is actually challenging. MMOs are allowed to have fun solo content as well as group content.

And for the love of god, RNG does NOT equal challenge!!!

RNG is lazy as hell, it's not for nor challenging (unless doing your best to not unsub is a challenge). I don't want to quit this game but if I ever were to it would be over getting screwed by RNG one too many times. Hell, after a particularly bad atma session today I got into another MMO beta and started downloading an old one I used to play.

[Kazama]

If there was a super complex stat system someone would still just figure out the BiS set for every job and everyone would use that

This is the defense that is always used when someone brings up horizontal progression and stat diversity and it really isn't true. For one, as stats get more complex, the less other people tend to care about your gear as long as it is level and job appropriate. But sure, someone will always come out with best cookie cutter builds for DPS Output, Healing Output and Damage Mitigation. But you can most certainly have different synergies in gear and on top of that you can also have bonus attributes like movement speed, resistance and a whole slew of other things that work out situationally or to optimize burst damage over sustained. You can't tell me that a +5% movement speed buff has no chance of saving a bad dodger in Titan EX, Ramuh EX, T6 can you? What if you are fighting something that does a lot of unavoidable AoE damage but isn't made any easier by high DPS, wouldn't you like the option of using a higher defense/HP set at the cost of DPS output? Hypothetical of course but what if you could stack enough resist petrify to never have to worry about Shriek, Voice or Petrifaction on T7 again. Or imagine if your tank found a piece of gear that makes it so if he gets hit for more than half his HP in a single attack it restores 25% of the damage from the attack. That sure would be nice for Death Sentence or Ravensbeak right?


I've clearly seen these kinds of things work out flawlessly in multiple MMOs. In XI on my BLM when soloing I optimized very specifically to ensure that I could 1-shot my mob or I would get dead real fast. For normal farming I pulled out a scythe to whack things with, then for endgame bosses it was all about Elemental Magic Skill to reduce resists. My Cleric in Aion has 5 sets of gear (HP, Magic Resistance, Block, Healing Boost/MP and Magic Boost) that I use in PvE depending on the fight (no gear swap mechanics here). Many Clerics would often fail at healing runs because they would die or wouldn't have the MP to handle it. In my DPS set I frequently clocked in the top 5 DPS of all players at open world fortress sieges gaining me top credit and making solo content go by absurdly fast. Man what I would pay for a DPS set on my WHM in FFXIV cause holy farming is amazing already.

[Kazama]

So there are many support systems and development rules that must be adopted in order to foster a more horizontal system. It's lots of work to design and balance, but it needs to happen if ARR is ever going to cultivate a sustainable player base.

I think you snipped my original post that I was editing into a manifesto before I decided to move it for now lol. Regardless I agree completely. Also, yeah I was one of the players from 04 to 10 that bailed when the cap blew a hole in my boat.

[Zumi]

What if you are fighting something that does a lot of unavoidable AoE damage but isn't made any easier by high DPS, wouldn't you like the option of using a higher defense/HP set at the cost of DPS output?

This already exists in the form of melded accessories. You can be a dps say a monk and have melded accessories with vit, str, crit/det, you sacrifice some str for vit. Almost no dps does this because they don't care about survivability as a dps, because most dps think if they die to AoE its the healers fault. There is a lot of unavoidable aoe on every fight but I don't see any dps saying I should sacrifice some dps for more survivability. Would it make turns like Turn 8, and Turn 9 easier on the healers if dps did this yes it would but almost every dps wouldn't want to lower their dps to make the healers job easier. You could do stuff like survive a double meteor stream without having a quick heal in there if all the dps had extra vit or survive a big aoe hit in T8 of heals were slow and everyone wasn't topped off in time. But the way the game is now people want the healers to do their job not give them more leeway to make mistakes.

Only some warrior tanks will use melded accessories because they want to sacrifice a little hp for slightly higher dps because they fell they can afford a lower HP and the healer can still heal them.

[Mogi]

I like it how it is. Go find another game.

This 100%^^ good bye

[Taruranto]

This already exists in the form of melded accessories. You can be a dps say a monk and have melded accessories with vit, str, crit/det, you sacrifice some str for vit. Almost no dps does this because they don't care about survivability as a dps, because most dps think if they die to AoE its the healers fault. There is a lot of unavoidable aoe on every fight but I don't see any dps saying I should sacrifice some dps for more survivability. Would it make turns like Turn 8, and Turn 9 easier on the healers if dps did this yes it would but almost every dps wouldn't want to lower their dps to make the healers job easier. You could do stuff like survive a double meteor stream without having a quick heal in there if all the dps had extra vit or survive a big aoe hit in T8 of heals were slow and everyone wasn't topped off in time. But the way the game is now people want the healers to do their job not give them more leeway to make mistakes.

Only some warrior tanks will use melded accessories because they want to sacrifice a little hp for slightly higher dps because they fell they can afford a lower HP and the healer can still heal them.

Considering how many fights rely on DPS checks and scripted mechanics that require X dps yeah, of course they don't. And it still poor customization.

Infamous? More like standard procedure pretty much. Nothing out of the ordinary. Skill/Spell Speed, Accuracy, Critical Hit, Determination(pretty much Expertise), Parry. Eeeeyup the standard MMO set up is all here. Only argument to make here is that bonus distribution is near pointless since people stack the main stat. I wouldn't hold a candle to FFXI either just because you stacked two stats instead of one and it's secondary stats were pretty much the same. Also to note that devs said they are trying to make certain things like "Enhances xx" due to popular demand without shaking the way the current system works.

" you stacked two stats instead of one and it's secondary stats were pretty much the same." What? What the hell are you even going on about? Did you even play XI? Just RDM had more stats and gears combinations than all the jobs in this game combined.

A


I agree. Yoshi has done a spectacular job with the new engine and graphics, the UI, and much of the quality of life aspects of ARR. But Tanaka did a FAR better job with creating an authentic-feeling fantasy world and having the systems of the game serve that purpose. Tanaka was also much more reserved in his management of 'spectacle'. He carefully limited the amount of flashiness at the launch of the game, and would drip-feed it to players over the expected life of the game in order to always have something new to show.

Yoshi was dumping buckets of glowing weapons, gaudy armor, mounts and minions on the players from day 1. This approached can't be sustained without venturing into complete absurdity and obliterating all sense of legitimacy in the world.

The sweet spot would be to have each working on what they do best.

This is a very good post. The ammount of tacky mounts we got in this game is honestly absurd. A Behemoth? What's the next, ride Titan if you pre-order the new expansion?

[Felessan]

I see way less people in mor dhona, I see way less combat activity in PF. Almost half of it is just merchant advertisement and coil static recruitment. Hunt is garbage tier content that the majority are doing because they're forced into it.

I'm... well-connected, so I see a lot of different people. People I'm telling about is just casuals/very mild hardcore. They don't go to raids and play generally limited amount of time. They have nothing to do in 2.0-2.1. Now they got their Zodiac weapon questline, sporadic hunting activity, rooms to decorate, all this keeps people in game.
On other hand I have FC full of people at/past T9. Those who wanted "get in pass content, go to next MMO" - already left, and last wave was around start of 2.2. Now only dedicated raiders left and they just do stuff they want - raiding, hunting hardcore, earning money.
And (as I said in all those "cry me a river" Hunt treads) party finders already starts to liven up, as people farmed/got bored with hunts and go back to usual activities. I already see 10-15 entries, ppl even start trying Ramuh in random parties.

I never meant to make his words what I want, Yoshida has a vision of what he wants in the future, and pretty deep into the future too from what I've heard. So with this in mind I thought about why he would want all these systems to be simple right off the bat.

You treat simplicity as something bad. Back from when I worked as some kind of designer there was a golden rule - KISS - Keep It Short and Simple.
Being simple does not means it lacks depth, board games have simple rules, but being a master in them is hard as hell. It much easier to organize depth and balance difficulty for simple things than for overcomplicated things.

I am moving to Destiny. It is not a real MMO but neither is XIV with all the instances. And I will actually get to explore the world!

You will be displeased.
Sans PvP (that just more or less clone to any other multiplayer shooter) it's the same theme park MMO with vertical progression and focus on dungeons and raids. Just look at leaked list of content - dungeons, hard mode dungeons and raids.

This is the defense that is always used when someone brings up horizontal progression and stat diversity and it really isn't true. For one, as stats get more complex, the less other people tend to care about your gear as long as it is level and job appropriate.

One of the problem with horizontal progression that it makes whole "ilvl or bust" goes beyond clouds. Every single situation will be min-maxed and people with non-optimal equipment will be shunned. And getting 5 sets of gear is a larger stress than getting 1 set.

[MogBeatr]

I played WOW for 6.5 years,player eq for 2 month,UO for 2 yrs
liked UO the most, EQ the second, had a memorable adventure in these games.

played WOW for the longest time but I hate it at the end.
vanilla WOW was great, after that I slowly realized WOW was just using a gear treadmill to take my money.
no more adventure,players don't help each others and blame each others because they wiped.

I like you! My sentiments as well. Agree wholeheartedly about UO.

On the teleport thing. What makes the game less immersive imo, Is the haphazard map design. Who would know how to get anywhere in this game much less walk from one end to the other without some kind of continuous map? Don't blame teleporting.

On a side note whoever said peeps didnt complain back then: They did, forums just weren't as populated.

[Hiruke]

This already exists in the form of melded accessories.

First off, melded accessories by definition aren't at the current iLVL cap, making them inherently less good than anything that is at the current iLVL cap, period. The amount of specialization/odd stats you can do are pretty limited, and quite expensive. If you can think of any melded accessories that with their secondary stats make X fight more easier than using iLVL capped gear, please let us know.

Either way, this is nothing at all like for example using full Lightning Resistance gear and taking substantially less damage from Ramuh EX, which was a common tactic used in FFXI (tank dragons using fire resist gear so their unavoidable fireball attacks did next to nothing). Also doesn't really speak to the other wonderful examples given by other posters on how using different stats for different purposes would be way better than how the system currently works.

This 100%^^ good bye

You do realize that once everyone else gets sick of how shallow the game is and unsubs that they'll simply shut down the game and then you won't have anything, right? Telling people who are trying to give advice on how the game may be improved to simply "get out" is rude and unhelpful.