Simplicity over complexity, time to change.

[Felessan]

Ah yes, the design choices that had WoW lose 5mil subs since going the themepark route (Wrath and Beyond). That's 2.5x the population of FFXIV! Strange how the main subscription gain was when WoW was still an "old school" MMO back in Vanilla and TBC. But that's "outdated" I guess.

Mmmm... Does L1 on the same graph too had wrath and beyond at its 6th year? Or maybe FF11? Why it's only WoW that suffer from wrath, and others just start to fall by themselves at 5-7 years?
You know, games becomes old, and 7 years is already a lot to get tired from particular MMO. WoW doesn't had very good graphics from the start and now it's just look archaic, and no flashy effects help it. Like - WoW? Again? No, thanks.

[Felessan]

Even WoW developers admit that their approach was a short-sighted cash grab, and a disaster for the MMO industry.

There is a good blog - http://www.eldergame.com where industry insiders describes a lot of what's going on with MMO. And there were a very good explanation of WoW choices, why they are positive for general game perception. You can just roll back to somewhere into 2009 to find them.

[Velhart]

Mmmm... Does L1 on the same graph too had wrath and beyond at its 6th year? Or maybe FF11? Why it's only WoW that suffer from wrath, and others just start to fall by themselves at 5-7 years?
You know, games becomes old, and 7 years is already a lot to get tired from particular MMO. WoW doesn't had very good graphics from the start and now it's just look archaic, and no flashy effects help it. Like - WoW? Again? No, thanks.

Warlords of Draenor expansion coming out is actually completely revamping the graphics to be closer to modern standard graphics and this expansion is being developed by those who did the Burning Crusade expansion. Also, WoW hit it's peak numbers between WoTLK and Cataclysm, and started dying down around the end of Cataclysm. Blizzard made a lot of questionable choices in Mists of Pandira and I think they realize that it hasn't been working well in their favor. Warlords of Draenor I believe is the attempt to get a lot of their hard core back. In all fairness to Blizzard though, even at their lowest, they are still pulling numbers that other MMO developers can only dream of having.

[Tupsi]

Mmmm... Does L1 on the same graph too had wrath and beyond at its 6th year? Or maybe FF11? Why it's only WoW that suffer from wrath, and others just start to fall by themselves at 5-7 years?

...You do realize...in 5-7 years for XI:

XI Vanilla = 2002
XI Zilart (Expansion 1) = 2003
XI Chains of Promathia (Expansion 2) = 2004
XI Treasures of Aht Urhgan (Expansion 3) = 2006
XI Wings of the Goddess (Expansion 4) = 2007
XI Visions of Abyssea (game change) = 2009.

How did XI fall "by themselves"? It took years before XI starting falling off.

[Gilthas]

A big logical fallacy that people keep spouting over and over in this topic is that FFXIV is losing a lot of subscribers because of it's current mechanics (which can be true) but that this wouldn't be happening if said FFXI/FFXIV 1.0 mechanics were in the game. Not only is this impossible to prove, I'd say that it's very unlikely to be true. We dealt with those mechanics 10 years ago because they were the only thing we knew. The world has moved on.

[Renik]

We were talking about simplicity in the mechanics itself, not the entire game as a whole. Should read more carefully.

Maybe i lost something, but when i started this thread i was talking about the overall simplicity of this game, and while i used the word complexity what i wanted to say was indeed depth, in the end both come together.

Lets just say we are not talking about making the game more complex or the sake of it, just less simple, because anyone can see this game has a lot of potential, but it's actually hollow.

[Dude]

These threads always boil down to "I want this to be FF11"

This game is just fine. It plays a little more like wow, probably to bring in the some of the 3-4 mil subs they have lost over the last few years. It's beautiful, has a good story, and has lots to do.

FF11 was a good game in its hay day, but 14 has done a good job implementing lesson learned from it.

[Felessan]

Lets just say we are not talking about making the game more complex or the sake of it, just less simple, because anyone can see this game has a lot of potential, but it's actually hollow.

This actually amuses me how people that do nothing to push mechanics past "simple" accuse it that it's too hollow. Maybe try harder and at least pass through T5 before complaining about simplicity?
It's like you want to intentionally make game harder for everyone because you are bored and too lazy to actually do something, so you want game do it for you.

[Gilthas]

It's like you want to intentionally make game harder for everyone because you are bored and too lazy to actually do something, so you want game do it for you.

Not going to comment on the coil part, but this second part of the post basically sums up the "remove teleport" crowd's argument.

I actually had the same feelings towards allowing you to repair gear on any class. Changing to my crafter to repair gear did bring me more immersion, but now that that restriction is gone I don't do it anymore. Do I miss it? Nope.

Instead of asking for cumbersome mechanics I'd rather they satisfy my needs for crafter immersion by giving us more quests.

[Exstal]

But for FF MMO fans ( FFXI, and FFIXV 1.23), this is really the last bastion.

Not true.

FFXI is still running.