Simplicity over complexity, time to change.

[Hurlstone]

Now, you're totally free to hold these opinions, and truthfully there is nothing fundamentally wrong with it, but wouldn't you like to have something with a little more complexity? Something to give the game more depth and engagement so the game becomes even more involving so you don't get bored of it?

It depends on what you mean by 'complexity' I think. Some peoples definition of complex and hard content, such as FFXI, just sounds like utter boredom to me. Don't get me wrong, I like to think of myself as an experienced MMO player (My first was actually FFXI back when it was first released here in the UK, but I stopped playing around five years ago) and there are elements of the OP that I would love, such as more character personalization and hybrid jobs (If only so my beloved Red Mage can be added...) but such complex content would need to be fun most of all, and perhaps not something shoved down every players throat. My personal greatest fear for a game is not things like DF or casual players, but an 'elitist' attitude or community.

My personal opinion is that there should be features and progression which caters to all styles of play, from casual to hardcore. I do not think it is fair for one to be singled out for the other. There needs to be content which gives players of old a challenge and a reason to continue playing, but you still want to have a game which dose not punish you for simply being new or wanting to enjoy other aspects of the game (Such a story) over gear progression. From what I have seen of the updates, this seems to be the way SE flows. The problem is that whatever Yoshi dose, there will be people on both sides who will demand more and feel that they are left-out. It is the same with every MMO.

[Tupsi]

ome peoples definition of complex and hard content, such as FFXI, just sounds like utter boredom to me

SCH in XI for example was 'complex', just like Puppetmaster was 'complex', Blue Mage was also complex and some fights like say Shinryu has 'complexity' to it because it's more than just 'by the script.' So if actually being active and not following a 100% script is boring..yeah anything other than a simple MMO would be boring to you.

and perhaps not something shoved down every players throat. My personal greatest fear for a game is not things like DF or casual players, but an 'elitist' attitude or community.

Too late, just mention XI and watch the hate comments roll in. Mention "going against the standard" and watch the hate comments roll in.

Which isn't the same thing.

So - Being "complex for the sake of complexity" isn't the same as 'Being simple for the sake of simplicity"?

Alrighty then.

[Lithera]

SCH in XI for example was 'complex', just like Puppetmaster was 'complex', Blue Mage was also complex and some fights like say Shinryu has 'complexity' to it because it's more than just 'by the script.' So if actually being active and not following a 100% script is boring..yeah anything other than a simple MMO would be boring to you.

SCH...decide if you're nuking or healing.. put up correct Storm...nuke/heal...PUP...sort of...had to be smart with your maneuvers...BLU..illusion...once you slotted the "Must have" spells you only had room for a couple of more "flexible" spells. Beyond that...swing sword...self SC... Shinryu lol spam for procs...hit potion...rape. If you did him straight up he DID have a script btw..and phases...

[Tupsi]

If you did him straight up he DID have a script btw..and phases...

It's just like Ozma in FFIX, everything has a script in the sense there's a monster script to tell the monster to actually work, if that's what you mean - As the only thing scripted about him as this is the particular example is that he's scripted to use Dark Star x amount of times when he chooses to use it, which is t random. Since you mentioned phases, like Provenance Watcher, Shinryu's phases were based on his wing position (PW was based on wing count) which changed up how they were. Scripted encounters doesn't necessarily change much since if you break said script, strange things happen..

Even popping your god mode tonic doesn't work 100% of the time, it can still kill you if you're not careful because you can easily waste those 3 minutes. One of the Hunt monsters follows the same principles and so many people wiped because they're not used to something other than sit and spam your spam rotation.

[Hurlstone]

SCH in XI for example was 'complex', just like Puppetmaster was 'complex', Blue Mage was also complex and some fights like say Shinryu has 'complexity' to it because it's more than just 'by the script.' So if actually being active and not following a 100% script is boring..yeah anything other than a simple MMO would be boring to you.

Puppetmaster was actually one of my favorite jobs, as was Blue Mage (I loved how it had actual solo capabilities) but where they really that complex? Compared to the starting jobs sure, but when compared to the classes of FFXIV I do not think they are any harder. The thing I remember most about those jobs was that they were also fun, they were not complex (If they were) for the sake of it. The boredom I refer to in regards to FFXI is more around the level grinding (Killing monsters over and over was not fun...) and staticness of some of the jobs. Thinking about it, one of my pet peeves was the fact that the community did punish you for trying to go against the script. Would any party accept a RDM/NIN (My personal favorite for farming) or even something like DRK/SAM, no matter how good they were?

I will admit that I enjoy some of the things other players would call 'scripted' or 'themepark' but so what? I still think there should be verity for every player, whether you want to follow the script or improvise your own performance. You like what you like, and I will like what I like. Hopefully, the game will be able to cater to us all as it continue its life and growth!

Too late, just mention XI and watch the hate comments roll in. Mention "going against the standard" and watch the hate comments roll in.

And mention making things easier or actually enjoying 'the script' and watch the flames rise. It is one of the reasons why I do not think one side should own the game.

[Gilthas]

So - Being "complex for the sake of complexity" isn't the same as 'Being simple for the sake of simplicity"?

Alrighty then.

No it isn't.

Complexity for the sake of complexity has a much more negative conotation to it than simplicity, because the former just brings unecessary bloat to the game.

Like many have said on these forums new areas should require effort to travel so I hope aetherytes won't be in all new zones frome here on out.

Why do so many people have a problem with others being able to teleport around?

[Baneus]

No it isn't.

Complexity for the sake of complexity has a much more negative conotation to it than simplicity, because the former just brings unecessary bloat tot he game.



Why do so many people have a problem with others being able to teleport around?

Because they equate "time spent getting somewhere" with "immersion". Which is silly of course, immersion simply means "being immersed in [something]". Seeing as the ability to teleport is intrinsic to the majority of RPG game that incorporate magic, I'd say that we are pretty well immersed without creating a false sense of difficulty.

[Redemption]

No it isn't.

Complexity for the sake of complexity has a much more negative conotation to it than simplicity, because the former just brings unecessary bloat to the game.

I disagree, as simplicity leads to shallow boring game elements and play. I find this to be more negative than having some extra bloat to get through.

[Fendred]

I disagree, as simplicity leads to shallow boring game elements and play. I find this to be more negative than having some extra bloat to get through.

For the sake of verisimilitude, I think the world and dungeons need a consistent mix of hard to kill monsters and non-elites. If a type of dragon is supposed to be large and powerful, it should be represented similarly in both Coerthas and Stone Vigil (albeit, solo-able by a cautious player in the over world). It would help create a sense of consistency that is more in line with what you'd expect in an actual fantasy world as opposed to just making a monster with the same model that's more powerful for the sake of a dungeon.