Simplicity over complexity, time to change.

[ErBear]

Oh, but that's where you're wrong! I played FFXI for years and loved it until I finally burned out. And that's why I don't want FFXIV to be another FFXI.

I love it how you say things like "you don't understand why things were as they were". I do. They were like that to waste our time. Because teleports don't need to be removed from FFXIV for us to go out and immerse ourselves in it's world.

And that's the big problem with most of the claims for bringing back the stuff in FFXI, they're just stuff designed to waste our time, and that's why they're outdated because developers understood that what players want to do is to actually play a game, not waste a lot of time between the moments when they're actually playing.

1000 wow clones, 0 ffxi clones. Why in the heck would you want another WoW clone?

[Gilthas]

1000 wow clones, 0 ffxi clones. Why in the heck would you want another WoW clone?

Because 1 FF WoW clone and 1 FFXI is better for me than 2 FFXI's. It's even better for me because I never played WoW or any of it's clones.

I knew AoC, Tera, Aion, Rift were all going to die or become free to play after playing them for a few months. I haven't decided what will happen to XIV next year. I think it will die since Yoshi is against free to play.
XI lasted longer (still is, albeit it is totally different game now) than all the above as a subscription game (still is too). But XIV... its not made to be a long lasting game. So i quit the game since I dont want to invest in a game with no future. Why do I make these posts? Because I am bored and because I miss XIV 1.23 and what they did to this game!

ARR has nothing good:
1. the battle system sucks
2. it is all instanced
3. gear treadmill
4. doing same dungeons for gear treadmill; get new gear to do the old dungeon to get more gear
5. the world is small and instant teleports
6. the world is dead, the music in environment is bad (Mordhona is so annoying), there is no sense of being in the world

When people realize the above, subscriptions will dwindle.

And like I have pointed out before, while it is entirely possible that FFXIV will die out soon, there is no reason to believe that making it more like FFXI or 1.23 would make the game last longer. Though I doubt most of you will ever admit that fact.

[ErBear]

Because 1 FF WoW clone and 1 FFXI is better for me than 2 FFXI's. It's even better for me because I never played WoW or any of it's clones.

So you played FFXI for years and never touched another mmo? Heck even I played wow for a few months to check it out. I've played tones of free to play mmos. I know what I like, I don't like short term mmos with instant gratification which this game is. There is literally no work to be done with anything you do in the game. As I said before, a player who plays this game everyday will be in the same league as the person who logs in once a week. It's a terrible design flaw to have everyone on equal footing. The only thing that separates the everyday player and once a week player is SOMETIMES the skill level. Though, what does skill in this game have to do with anything when fights are pretty easy in this game because they can be memorized just by a few times playing them, hell just watch a fight on youtube a few times.

[Felessan]

My goal is getting to a point where everyone can enjoy this game equally, you have to understand something, as much as ppl ask for ffxi-2 (i don't think this is the case) this won't be happening, hence we won't steal your fun, instead we want to add some fun for us, the way to achieve this is getting collaboration from both sides, but all i hear is a plain "no to ffxi-2".

As I said - if you want FFXI, you can go back to the land of dying sun.
I am honest here, it's not possible to cater for everyone wish as some of concepts are just opposite to each other. Yes, you want something for yourself, but it will come with expense of others.
I don't really mind giving something to you, but you *should* understand that it will be given to you based on weighted average approach, and as casuals+hardcore >> roleplayers, you'd better to face reality sooner than later.

The thing that you for some reason treat as hate - is that I'm trying to say to you that wishing for something that will hurt casuals/hardcore in their way of playing this game is pointless, you'll not be given that. As they are much bigger and more important crowd. Your only opportunity lies in something that those groups will not care/bothered about, and locked out by hostility zones, ban on teleports etc are surely not in such list of harmless things.

[Redemption]

Oh, but that's where you're wrong! I played FFXI for years and loved it until I finally burned out. And that's why I don't want FFXIV to be another FFXI.

I love it how you say things like "you don't understand why things were as they were". I do. They were like that to waste our time. Because teleports don't need to be removed from FFXIV for us to go out and immerse ourselves in it's world.

And that's the big problem with most of the claims for bringing back the stuff in FFXI, they're just stuff designed to waste our time, and that's why they're outdated because developers understood that what players want to do is to actually play a game, not waste a lot of time between the moments when they're actually playing.

No, see, you don't get it if you think it was there to waste your time. You do not get that some things require subtle influence and REQUIRE you not to have instant satisfaction in order to be enjoyed. A living world is one such thing, I would say progression is another (delayed satisfaction of obtaining a really cool unique item for example). It was not added (only, somethings certainly kept in mind a subscription) merely to waste time but to give the world flavor and enhance the big experiences. However, since that is and will always be your stance apparently, theres no further point in debating you on it.

You know, I really like my character clothes become wet in the rain. It does creates immersion. FF14 has it, while FF11 has not (as well as WoW).
The point is that you can add immersion feature without need to worsen accessibility/simplicity of "everyone" content. You just need to be more creative and look around to possibilities, without sticking "it was like so in ff11, so let make it the same in ff14"

I don't believe i've said make anything like ffxi in this thread, I am merely defending its concepts as valid ideas. And yes, some immersion can be added that wont affect accessibility and simplicity but I actively dislike the simplicity of this game personally. Does that mean it needs to change? No. Would I like it to change? yes. Do I want to take your cookies and run? No. I am just stating what I would like to see in the game, and to be honest I don't think this game will ever be what I want and thats alright (I do wish more people would be open to letting a niche game exist though, it seems like on every mmo since wow everyone argues purely that majority wins. Being that so many similar games already exist why is it not ok to think a ffxi should exist out there somewhere? I get that you are already invested in THIS game so you dont really like the idea that change could make it unappealing but why shoot down the idea entirely?)

[Gilthas]

No, see, you don't get it if you think it was there to waste your time. You do not get that some things require subtle influence and REQUIRE you not to have instant satisfaction in order to be enjoyed. A living world is one such thing, I would say progression is another (delayed satisfaction of obtaining a really cool unique item for example). It was not added (only, somethings certainly kept in mind a subscription) merely to waste time but to give the world flavor and enhance the big experiences. However, since that is and will always be your stance apparently, theres no further point in debating you on it.

And yet the big problem of your argument is and will always be that you don't need to waste a player's time to enhance the world for them. There is literally nothing preventing you from going down the slow road, only your own problems with seeing others around you on the highway.

So you played FFXI for years and never touched another mmo? Heck even I played wow for a few months to check it out. I've played tones of free to play mmos. I know what I like, I don't like short term mmos with instant gratification which this game is. There is literally no work to be done with anything you do in the game. As I said before, a player who plays this game everyday will be in the same league as the person who logs in once a week. It's a terrible design flaw to have everyone on equal footing. The only thing that separates the everyday player and once a week player is SOMETIMES the skill level. Though, what does skill in this game have to do with anything when fights are pretty easy in this game because they can be memorized just by a few times playing them, hell just watch a fight on youtube a few times.

Sorry if you don't get to be a special snowflake.

Some of us aren't driven by selfishness as I play a lot (probably too much) and have zero problems with people that play less reaching my level or leaving me in the dust.

Though if you actually played the game you'd see that there are things in the game that take time to achieve.

My goal is getting to a point where everyone can enjoy this game equally, you have to understand something, as much as ppl ask for ffxi-2 (i don't think this is the case) this won't be happening, hence we won't steal your fun, instead we want to add some fun for us, the way to achieve this is getting collaboration from both sides, but all i hear is a plain "no to ffxi-2".

You have to realize that some of the things you're asking for are simply incompatible with keeping some of the stuff people like about the current game.

[ErBear]

Sorry if you don't get to be a special snowflake.

What, it's not about being special, I'm not a hardcore gamer. I like seeing people with awesome stuff that I know I'll never get, so try again. There needs to be rewards for those who do have the time and effort to play a game all the time. Also, people argue people don't have the time for mmos anymore.... well, sorry but people have just as much time as they did 8 years ago. People who played FFXI 10 years ago, had family, kids, jobs, schooling... Nothing has changed, the only thing that has changed is the amount of people who now play video games compared to 10 years ago. They are the majority now that these game companies are trying to cater to because that's where the money is.

[Azurak]

I knew AoC, Tera, Aion, Rift were all going to die or become free to play after playing them for a few months. I haven't decided what will happen to XIV next year. I think it will die since Yoshi is against free to play.
XI lasted longer (still is, albeit it is totally different game now) than all the above as a subscription game (still is too). But XIV... its not made to be a long lasting game. So i quit the game since I dont want to invest in a game with no future. Why do I make these posts? Because I am bored and because I miss XIV 1.23 and what they did to this game!

ARR has nothing good:
1. the battle system sucks
2. it is all instanced
3. gear treadmill
4. doing same dungeons for gear treadmill; get new gear to do the old dungeon to get more gear
5. the world is small and instant teleports
6. the world is dead, the music in environment is bad (Mordhona is so annoying), there is no sense of being in the world

When people realize the above, subscriptions will dwindle.

[odintius]

<3 that fact that this conversation digress to ffxi vs wow lmfao.

[Jubez187]

I'm not a big fan of builds and customization because we'll all become one best build anyways. But I think the game is a little too lenient on things, especially enmity. I wish enmity generation was cut in half, and that bosses reset aggro more. I think just that one simple gesture would increase the depth of combat by 10 fold.