"You are bad at using Provoke"

[Kuwagami]

The Easist way to explain how to use provoke is this,

Provoke works like Taunt in WoW

If you Provoke something that you alrdy have aggro on, it is useless and you have wasted the cooldown.

As I've been told, it doesn't.

In WOW (according to players), taunt was forcing the mob to attack you for a set time. Provoke doesn't do that at all. I've seen plenty of players thinking that provoke would force the mob to attack them, then fail to understand why the mob continues to go for the healer.

[Cassandaria]

The only skill that is similar to taunt in WoW was...taunt in FFXIV 1.0 (belonging to monk of all jobs). It forced the mob to attack the monk for a set amount of time and ignore the agro table.

[Jeannes]

this thread provokes me

[Aloreal]

unfortunately to teach someone how to use provoke needs:
The tank and party to stand still and listen.
The tank to not get all defensive about it and actually read.
The tank to actually understand what he is reading.

There is no magic universal answer that all can understand perfectly im afraid.

Usually when im healing and i see this i ask the tank if he knows how to use provoke effectively. some admit, some go to a rage, some dont.

most of the times for a party to stop moving is to show them the error. basically let them use provoke and if you are healer time it so you heal the tank at that specific moment. or attack the mob. when you wipe talk to them. Ive had more success in talking to parties after a wipe than before. because before everyone is an Arnold with Stallone crossbreed with a hint of Antonio Banderas but when they die they come to reality.

[Souljacker]

The Easist way to explain how to use provoke is this,

Provoke works like Taunt in WoW

If you Provoke something that you alrdy have aggro on, it is useless and you have wasted the cooldown.

how does that explain anything at all? Provoke doesn't work AT ALL like taunt in WoW.

The problem is with tanks either using it before ANYONE has established aggro (why would a tank provoke a mob they already control) i.e. on a pull when it is least effective, or tanks believing that just using provoke on a mob at range will be sufficient to bring the enemy back in line (and often it isn't unless the person it's wailing on is in range of your next ability, or they have the grace to stop attacking for a few seconds).

SE has designed this ability very, very badly, and what's worse is that other abilities around it that could have compensated (Holmgang comes to mind) were designed equally as badly so you cannot use them to help. SE is still learning how to design this kind of content, so I'm hopeful for the future... but simple things like this that can really help leveling tanks out should be quickly addressed. There is no reason why every individual tank class shouldn't have a base taunt before they start grouping. Period.

[Enyeto]

I don't use provoke. If I lose hate, I just get up and make a sandwich. Haven't eaten in months.

[Vanifae]

When I use Provoke I try to follw it up with a thrown shield or thrown axe. Then a quick high enmity attack and then go.

Is this wrong?

[whiskeybravo]

They need to just change to tool tip to something like "Copies enmity of highest enmity player" and it would probably solve most all of these problems. It shouldn't have the same description as flash, savage blade/skull sunder, rage of halone/butchers block, etc.. It's not the same, and this is probably what leads to confusion with newer players.

Kind of funny stories: When I first started playing this game, I had a IRL friend playing along. I was CNJ/WHM, he was GLA/PLD, so we got to figure out a lot of this "enmity building" early on. At some point another player had told my buddy to stop using provoke on the pull, and explained what provoke did. My buddy ignored this players advice, (he wasn't rude or anything as far as I remember), and continued to pull with Provoke because of the long range. So months go by, my buddy stopped playing, I finally start leveling tank, and realized that guy that told us what provoke did was spot on the whole time.

I've tried to be that guy when I have the chance, helping out young tankers. Some people listen, others don't. The best one was 2 friends running, one had been playing a while, one was new and was tanking (I think it was low level Tam Tara), we finally clear and at the end I offered to give the guy some advice.. After a wall of text, the tank just left, didn't say thanks, ill consider, shut up, nothing, just left. His buddy was appreciative though, told me he would try to relay my message as best he could. That's just how it goes sometimes.

[Vanifae]

I find if one is trying to be helpful, short, sweet, and not terribly rude is the best you can do.

[Dioltas]

I'm a little confused as to the exact values of what provoke adds to enmity when you use it. There was one fight I was in recently, I think it was King Mog Ex with the tank swapping on the King using provoke. Anyways from what I remember I died at one point and when revived I tried to provoke the King and didn't get full enmity for it, I went from 8th in the agro list to about 4th or 5th. So I'm wondering is there an upper limit to how much aggro provoke can give you.

I may be mistaken as it is a pretty crazy fight and it was the only time I saw provoke not put me at the top of the list. Can anyone else verify this? I'd rather not repeat it just to find out if it works ^^ Might get a pretty angry team for that

Also, as for getting the message across as to how provoke works I think the enmity +1 description works best to explain it. Also try to encourage tanks to Macro a message, target and sound effect for it so ppl know to stop hitting the provoked target while enmity is secured (especially for tank swapping).