"You are bad at using Provoke"

[randomrope]

3) when you died

You shouldn't forget this one, you can always meet bad healers

I am sorry but you are wrong. You have to actually be on the hate table for provoke to work. For all of you using provoke first after you die you are wasting it. That is why you are confused when you provoke first after death and you are either not on the table or in the middle (because you quickly use something else after it).

You must get on the enmity table FIRST by using another action. Then use provoke followed by another hate generating action. Nice try Kuwagami.

Example: Tomahawk/Shield lob (cause you are running back to the mob) > Provoke > Tomahawk/shield lob or start your hate combo.

[Kuwagami]

I am sorry but you are wrong. You have to actually be on the hate table for provoke to work. For all of you using provoke first after you die you are wasting it. That is why you are confused when you provoke first after death and you are either not on the table or in the middle (because you quickly use something else after it).

You must get on the enmity table FIRST by using another action. Then use provoke followed by another hate generating action. Nice try Kuwagami.

Example: Tomahawk/Shield lob (cause you are running back to the mob) > Provoke > Tomahawk/shield lob or start your hate combo.

weren't we talking about boss fights here ? For trash if you die there's no way to recover in time, all trash will be cleared or the group will wipe (or the healer will choose you over saving a dps/himself..)

In a boss fight, you get on hate table as soon as you set foot in the battle space, be it entering the room or being revived.

I don't know what your experience is, but reviving => defiance => provoke works 100% of the time

(inb4 "you used a buff and gained 70 points" : nope, you gain no enmity with buffs if you are far from the target (further than a tomahawk at least, which is almost always the case)

EDIT : thinking of it again, you're totally wrong on that. Just randomly provoke a mob in the wild and you'll see. If it doesn't work, they ninja changed it a few days ago.
The only moment provoke doesn't work is for FATEs and hunt (until you generated some enmity for hunts to prevent abuses)

[randomrope]

In a boss fight, you get on hate table as soon as you set foot in the battle space, be it entering the room or being revived.

Nope. Thats the same as orange aggro. Of course if you stand there and do nothing the boss will eventually come to you cause you are the last one left. Im talking about the hate table. Its when you actually get some white on the aggro bar.

I don't know what your experience is, but reviving => defiance => provoke works 100% of the time

EDIT : thinking of it again, you're totally wrong on that. Just randomly provoke a mob in the wild and you'll see. If it doesn't work, they ninja changed it a few days ago.
The only moment provoke doesn't work is for FATEs and hunt (until you generated some enmity for hunts to prevent abuses)

No shit that will work on a mob in the wild. Its an action against it. Aggro and being on the enmity table are two different things.

[randomrope]

The only moment provoke doesn't work is for FATEs and hunt (until you generated some enmity for hunts to prevent abuses)

And wow. How would it work in a FATE when provoke does nothing against ppl not in your pt. Learn the actions before you try to argue with someone about it.

[Cassandaria]

Forget I said Anything.

Everything is taken to litterial on these forums anyway.

Yes In WoW, Taunt forces the Mob to attack you for something like 6 seconds, in which you have that much time to take Aggro, else it goes back to whatever the Mob was doing.

What I meant was in FFXIV when you Provoke something it places you 1 Aggro Above the highest person on the Mob's threat List, Thus bringing the Mob to you, for a Few Seconds, maybe 2 GCDs and that is the time you have to Take Hate.

I understand Reading inbetween the lines isnt a thing on the FFXIV Forums, but damn such Litterial Nazi's in this thread.

I'm sorry you feel that way, all we are pointing out is that a isn't like b. We aren't trying to push aside your suggestion. You cannot explain an ability as another ability that doesn't accomplish the same goal. No one was attacking you.

[Souljacker]

F
What I meant was in FFXIV when you Provoke something it places you 1 Aggro Above the highest person on the Mob's threat List, Thus bringing the Mob to you, for a Few Seconds, maybe 2 GCDs and that is the time you have to Take Hate.

Except that the mob doesn't come to you. You provoke off an overzealous bard, great. That bard is at range! One more button mash and your entire provoke is completely wasted. The problem is that you aren't given time to establish threat because it lacks the functionality of taunts in other games.

Each tank job needs their own version of a taunt, and it needs to work. This is a staple tank skill that defines the role. I don't even know why we are still arguing this - it's designed terribly in being a level 22 skill on only one class and barely functional in its current state outside of very, very niche circumstances.

[Giantbane]

Except that the mob doesn't come to you. You provoke off an overzealous bard, great. That bard is at range! One more button mash and your entire provoke is completely wasted. The problem is that you aren't given time to establish threat because it lacks the functionality of taunts in other games.

Each tank job needs their own version of a taunt, and it needs to work. This is a staple tank skill that defines the role. I don't even know why we are still arguing this - it's designed terribly in being a level 22 skill on only one class and barely functional in its current state outside of very, very niche circumstances.

It does actually work to some degree. Enemies will trigger an attack on a player, and if that attack is not in range, it will move into range and then execute the attack. If enmity changes while the enemy is moving, it will still keep moving toward the original target and execute the attack on the original target before switching back.

Provoke can be an off GCD way to pull an enemy that just spawns if you can use it to queue up an attack against you. Say you have 2 adds that spawn, are far apart from each other (no aoe) and you don't get enough time after they spawn to get off 2 normal GCD abilities (like tomahawk). If you tomahawk the first and then tomahawk the 2nd, the 2nd enemy *may* have already queued an attack against your healer before you had time to hit it. However, if you Tomahawk the first, Provoke the 2nd and then Tomahawk the 2nd, provoke can often get that 2nd enemy to queue the attack against you instead. Provoke alone obviously won't hold threat against anything, but while the enemy walks over toward you (instead of the healer), it gives you time for your GCD to finish and get that 2nd tomahawk off to secure agro.

[randomrope]

I believe it would be easier if we were to think of a way of telling people how Provoke works in a simple way that can be understand by almost (some people will never learn, but heh...) anyone using it, all of that in the middle of a dungeon.

So, please, how would you explain it?

I like how you bring this topic up without giving any constructive advice. As a competent tank there are only 2 instances when you should use provoke:
1. When doing a tank swap.
2. When trying to grab something out of range of tomahawk/shield lob without wanting to move.

If you are not in either of those situations you don't have a true need to provoke. Otherwise stop tanking. I say this because if you need to have provoke explained, again, stop tanking.

[Fynlar]

Provoke does have another use outside of it's intended enmity based ability; being our longest range ability, it can be used for getting the attention of enemies out of the range of Tomahawk/Shield Lob and bringing them within range [of Tomahawk/Shield Lob] faster and/or more safely. This was common to see in instances like Amdapor Keep pre-nerf with Succubi during the last third of the dungeon.

On this same sort of note, I also use it on random mobs while I'm progressing through a dungeon to the next mob pack, while I still have a combo-ready Savage/Halone, in order to reach melee distance sooner. Sometimes this has made the difference between getting to start the fight with Savage/Halone, and running out of time and having to start a brand new combo.

It's more of a finesse sort of thing than anything real vital though

Another Provoke use: getting a long-distance pull on the first boss in Brayflox HM so that you don't lure that stupid monkey inside the boss room (assuming no one else in your group is proactive enough to pull the boss themselves)

[ShinigamiZero]

[LIST=1][*]If you assume that Provoke generates a flat amount of enmity and you are using it to engage a battle or using it in the middle of the fight thinking that it will confort your position of main tank, please correct your thoughts on the matter, because that's not how it works.[*]If you know how Provoke works and you see a tank using it like I described above, please gently teach him the correct way to use his skill.

There are times when you actually DO use provoke when engaging in battle. Often times in dungeons I find myself using provoke to pull a really far away monster to AoE it. The range of provoke is a lot bigger and sometimes needed. Nothing wrong with provoke tomahawk/shield lob for those occasions.