"You are bad at using Provoke"

[Kuwagami]

And wow. How would it work in a FATE when provoke does nothing against ppl not in your pt. Learn the actions before you try to argue with someone about it.

my whole animus bestiary proved you wrong. How about YOU learn a bit and stop being arrogant ?

Nope. Thats the same as orange aggro. Of course if you stand there and do nothing the boss will eventually come to you cause you are the last one left. Im talking about the hate table. Its when you actually get some white on the aggro bar.

No shit that will work on a mob in the wild. Its an action against it. Aggro and being on the enmity table are two different things.

here again, you don't know what you're talking about. Have you ever made WP or brayflox HM speedruns ? Bosses there are attacked by party members and provoked then to gain some time (at least WP 1st and 2nd boss, and Brayflox 1st boss). according to your theory, it should not work at all, yet it does. Care to explain ?

[Cassandaria]

Forget I said Anything.

Everything is taken to litterial on these forums anyway.

Yes In WoW, Taunt forces the Mob to attack you for something like 6 seconds, in which you have that much time to take Aggro, else it goes back to whatever the Mob was doing.

What I meant was in FFXIV when you Provoke something it places you 1 Aggro Above the highest person on the Mob's threat List, Thus bringing the Mob to you, for a Few Seconds, maybe 2 GCDs and that is the time you have to Take Hate.

I understand Reading inbetween the lines isnt a thing on the FFXIV Forums, but damn such Litterial Nazi's in this thread.

I'm sorry you feel that way, all we are pointing out is that a isn't like b. We aren't trying to push aside your suggestion. You cannot explain an ability as another ability that doesn't accomplish the same goal. No one was attacking you.

[Dioltas]

Was it a coordinated group? Because it's very possible that the player just unloaded a huge amount of enmity at the time that you had casted Provoke. Warriors, particularly, can generate an exorbitant amount of enmity off of a single Skull Sunder or Butcher's Block while under the effects of Berserk and Unchained.



they are just trying to make sure that the information in the discussion is accurate

It happened again today that healer died, then I died, got a res and the threw provoke. Got full agro that time. Must have been a fluke miss or something I fucked up whenI thought it missed that other time. So in other words, ignore my original post, I is stooped

[Cassandaria]

It happened again today that healer died, then I died, got a res and the threw provoke. Got full agro that time. Must have been a fluke miss or something I fucked up whenI thought it missed that other time. So in other words, ignore my original post, I is stooped

I think I may know what happened with your initial pull. Keep in mind that it only puts you at 1 point above the person that is the highest. So what that means is, if you died, the party hasn't stopped doing damage or healing, so even though you give it a boost to get there, you do still need to work quite a bit to get that agro fully on you ^_^.

[SorriorDragneel]

It's true that provoke doesn't generate a set amount of aggro. It's just 1 above whatever is the highest on the list. However its use mid fight is useful on adds. I use it because if I am fast enough (and I always am) I can hit provoke forcing the add to queue up an attack on me, and not the WHM. This prevents the ping pong effect you get otherwise, since an add wont come after you until it reaches it's intended target with the intended attack.

Starting a fight with provoke though has zero value at all.

So I guess the best way to explain provoke is 'For use in case you need immediate aggro and only if you intend on following up with another high enmity attack. Otherwise useless skill.'

It's VERY good for more precise pulls at longer range.

[Fynlar]

Provoke does have another use outside of it's intended enmity based ability; being our longest range ability, it can be used for getting the attention of enemies out of the range of Tomahawk/Shield Lob and bringing them within range [of Tomahawk/Shield Lob] faster and/or more safely. This was common to see in instances like Amdapor Keep pre-nerf with Succubi during the last third of the dungeon.

On this same sort of note, I also use it on random mobs while I'm progressing through a dungeon to the next mob pack, while I still have a combo-ready Savage/Halone, in order to reach melee distance sooner. Sometimes this has made the difference between getting to start the fight with Savage/Halone, and running out of time and having to start a brand new combo.

It's more of a finesse sort of thing than anything real vital though

Another Provoke use: getting a long-distance pull on the first boss in Brayflox HM so that you don't lure that stupid monkey inside the boss room (assuming no one else in your group is proactive enough to pull the boss themselves)

[ShinigamiZero]

[LIST=1][*]If you assume that Provoke generates a flat amount of enmity and you are using it to engage a battle or using it in the middle of the fight thinking that it will confort your position of main tank, please correct your thoughts on the matter, because that's not how it works.[*]If you know how Provoke works and you see a tank using it like I described above, please gently teach him the correct way to use his skill.

There are times when you actually DO use provoke when engaging in battle. Often times in dungeons I find myself using provoke to pull a really far away monster to AoE it. The range of provoke is a lot bigger and sometimes needed. Nothing wrong with provoke tomahawk/shield lob for those occasions.

[Jaykos]

I cant blame new people for not knowing how provoke works. It's designed incredibly stupid in this game. Beyond acting different to every taunt of every MMO ever (thus making anyone with MMO experience initially thinking it acts similar to any other taunt in a game), it's tool tip is very misleading and gives no indication as to what it actually does (and thus misleading any new player to MMO's).

Well said. Theres a reason why tab target hotkey mmos make taunt function the way they do, because it works.

Hopefully se changes its mechanics to function similar to other mmos

http://www.torhead.com/ability/e0U4Adh/taunt#see-also

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=355#comments

Its silly to see one regen tick pull threat off you and have a mob ping pong back and forth through a dungeon

[Souljacker]

F
What I meant was in FFXIV when you Provoke something it places you 1 Aggro Above the highest person on the Mob's threat List, Thus bringing the Mob to you, for a Few Seconds, maybe 2 GCDs and that is the time you have to Take Hate.

Except that the mob doesn't come to you. You provoke off an overzealous bard, great. That bard is at range! One more button mash and your entire provoke is completely wasted. The problem is that you aren't given time to establish threat because it lacks the functionality of taunts in other games.

Each tank job needs their own version of a taunt, and it needs to work. This is a staple tank skill that defines the role. I don't even know why we are still arguing this - it's designed terribly in being a level 22 skill on only one class and barely functional in its current state outside of very, very niche circumstances.

[Giantbane]

Except that the mob doesn't come to you. You provoke off an overzealous bard, great. That bard is at range! One more button mash and your entire provoke is completely wasted. The problem is that you aren't given time to establish threat because it lacks the functionality of taunts in other games.

Each tank job needs their own version of a taunt, and it needs to work. This is a staple tank skill that defines the role. I don't even know why we are still arguing this - it's designed terribly in being a level 22 skill on only one class and barely functional in its current state outside of very, very niche circumstances.

It does actually work to some degree. Enemies will trigger an attack on a player, and if that attack is not in range, it will move into range and then execute the attack. If enmity changes while the enemy is moving, it will still keep moving toward the original target and execute the attack on the original target before switching back.

Provoke can be an off GCD way to pull an enemy that just spawns if you can use it to queue up an attack against you. Say you have 2 adds that spawn, are far apart from each other (no aoe) and you don't get enough time after they spawn to get off 2 normal GCD abilities (like tomahawk). If you tomahawk the first and then tomahawk the 2nd, the 2nd enemy *may* have already queued an attack against your healer before you had time to hit it. However, if you Tomahawk the first, Provoke the 2nd and then Tomahawk the 2nd, provoke can often get that 2nd enemy to queue the attack against you instead. Provoke alone obviously won't hold threat against anything, but while the enemy walks over toward you (instead of the healer), it gives you time for your GCD to finish and get that 2nd tomahawk off to secure agro.