"You are bad at using Provoke"

[Vanifae]

When I use Provoke I try to follw it up with a thrown shield or thrown axe. Then a quick high enmity attack and then go.

Is this wrong?

[whiskeybravo]

They need to just change to tool tip to something like "Copies enmity of highest enmity player" and it would probably solve most all of these problems. It shouldn't have the same description as flash, savage blade/skull sunder, rage of halone/butchers block, etc.. It's not the same, and this is probably what leads to confusion with newer players.

Kind of funny stories: When I first started playing this game, I had a IRL friend playing along. I was CNJ/WHM, he was GLA/PLD, so we got to figure out a lot of this "enmity building" early on. At some point another player had told my buddy to stop using provoke on the pull, and explained what provoke did. My buddy ignored this players advice, (he wasn't rude or anything as far as I remember), and continued to pull with Provoke because of the long range. So months go by, my buddy stopped playing, I finally start leveling tank, and realized that guy that told us what provoke did was spot on the whole time.

I've tried to be that guy when I have the chance, helping out young tankers. Some people listen, others don't. The best one was 2 friends running, one had been playing a while, one was new and was tanking (I think it was low level Tam Tara), we finally clear and at the end I offered to give the guy some advice.. After a wall of text, the tank just left, didn't say thanks, ill consider, shut up, nothing, just left. His buddy was appreciative though, told me he would try to relay my message as best he could. That's just how it goes sometimes.

[Vanifae]

I find if one is trying to be helpful, short, sweet, and not terribly rude is the best you can do.

[Dioltas]

I'm a little confused as to the exact values of what provoke adds to enmity when you use it. There was one fight I was in recently, I think it was King Mog Ex with the tank swapping on the King using provoke. Anyways from what I remember I died at one point and when revived I tried to provoke the King and didn't get full enmity for it, I went from 8th in the agro list to about 4th or 5th. So I'm wondering is there an upper limit to how much aggro provoke can give you.

I may be mistaken as it is a pretty crazy fight and it was the only time I saw provoke not put me at the top of the list. Can anyone else verify this? I'd rather not repeat it just to find out if it works ^^ Might get a pretty angry team for that

Also, as for getting the message across as to how provoke works I think the enmity +1 description works best to explain it. Also try to encourage tanks to Macro a message, target and sound effect for it so ppl know to stop hitting the provoked target while enmity is secured (especially for tank swapping).

[RhazeCain]

Yep, Provoke probably the most misunderstood ability in game. Or at minimum the most misunderstood tank ability.

Provoke gives you slightly more agro than the person currently at top of agro list. And I do emphasize the slightly part. Like +1 point, which ends up being ~0.0001%. So any activity at all done by the person 2nd on agro list puts them to 1st (i.e., person using Provoke loses agro right after).

Want to pull at very long range - longer than Tomahawk/Shield Lob? Cool. Use Provoke.
Want to pull 1 mob with GCD ability, and another before GCD finishes? Cool. Use Provoke for one of them.
Want to grab hate of a mob that's attacking your party member? Cool. Use Provoke followed quickly by another ability (Tomahawk/Shield Lob possibly).

Anything else - like using Provoke when Tomahawk/Shield Lob would work, or when you already have top agro spot - is just useless waste of the Provoke skill.

Having a thread like this trending on the forums might help. At least for that faction of players that actually reads here.

[Valmar]

Forget I said Anything.

Everything is taken to litterial on these forums anyway.

Yes In WoW, Taunt forces the Mob to attack you for something like 6 seconds, in which you have that much time to take Aggro, else it goes back to whatever the Mob was doing.

What I meant was in FFXIV when you Provoke something it places you 1 Aggro Above the highest person on the Mob's threat List, Thus bringing the Mob to you, for a Few Seconds, maybe 2 GCDs and that is the time you have to Take Hate.

I understand Reading inbetween the lines isnt a thing on the FFXIV Forums, but damn such Litterial Nazi's in this thread.

[Delorean]

from what I remember I died at one point and when revived I tried to provoke the King and didn't get full enmity for it, I went from 8th in the agro list to about 4th or 5th. So I'm wondering is there an upper limit to how much aggro provoke can give you.

Was it a coordinated group? Because it's very possible that the player just unloaded a huge amount of enmity at the time that you had casted Provoke. Warriors, particularly, can generate an exorbitant amount of enmity off of a single Skull Sunder or Butcher's Block while under the effects of Berserk and Unchained.

I understand Reading inbetween the lines isnt a thing on the FFXIV Forums, but damn such Litterial Nazi's in this thread.

they are just trying to make sure that the information in the discussion is accurate

[Dioltas]

Was it a coordinated group? Because it's very possible that the player just unloaded a huge amount of enmity at the time that you had casted Provoke. Warriors, particularly, can generate an exorbitant amount of enmity off of a single Skull Sunder or Butcher's Block while under the effects of Berserk and Unchained.



they are just trying to make sure that the information in the discussion is accurate

It happened again today that healer died, then I died, got a res and the threw provoke. Got full agro that time. Must have been a fluke miss or something I fucked up whenI thought it missed that other time. So in other words, ignore my original post, I is stooped

[Cassandaria]

It happened again today that healer died, then I died, got a res and the threw provoke. Got full agro that time. Must have been a fluke miss or something I fucked up whenI thought it missed that other time. So in other words, ignore my original post, I is stooped

I think I may know what happened with your initial pull. Keep in mind that it only puts you at 1 point above the person that is the highest. So what that means is, if you died, the party hasn't stopped doing damage or healing, so even though you give it a boost to get there, you do still need to work quite a bit to get that agro fully on you ^_^.

[Kuwagami]

What I meant was in FFXIV when you Provoke something it places you 1 Aggro Above the highest person on the Mob's threat List, Thus bringing the Mob to you, for a Few Seconds, maybe 2 GCDs and that is the time you have to Take Hate.

I understand Reading inbetween the lines isnt a thing on the FFXIV Forums, but damn such Litterial Nazi's in this thread.

That said, after using provoke you generally have less than a GCD to stabilize hate. You're nowhere near a few seconds, unless your group is very well coordinated

stuff

3) when you died

You shouldn't forget this one, you can always meet bad healers