Is enmity potency independent of enemy damage mitigation?

[dramamine]

Out of habit, more than anything else, I tend to spam cure as a paladin over flash or combos when an enemy is invulnerable to attack (like the first stage ultima weapon in praetorium) as it seemed to generate enmity more reliably when I was starting out.

However, if you go and read some of the enmity potency data at places like blitzball, it kind of sounds like enmity generation is an entirely separate calculation from damage and should completely ignore damage mitigation. If that's the case, flash should be significantly better than cure, and halone combos should be even better than flash. But it really doesn't feel that way to me.

[Skull_Angel]

If I'm not mistaken, enmity generated from damaging skills is directly related to the amount of damage they do to the specific enemy in question; enmity generated from non-damaging skills have their own set values, except in the case of Flash which scales off of weapon damage and attack power, but is not reduced by the enemy's defenses (Flash should generate the same level of enmity on an invulnerable target as it would on a target that is able to take damage). I may be mistaken about over-healing, but enmity generated from healing is 0.5 enmity per HP gained and 1.5 for over-healing.


edit; the information on Blitzball is old and many values have been changed since then.

[dramamine]

If I'm not mistaken, enmity generated from damaging skills is directly related to the amount of damage they do to the specific enemy in question; enmity generated from non-damaging skills have their own set values, except in the case of Flash which scales off of weapon damage and attack power, but is not reduced by the enemy's defenses (Flash should generate the same level of enmity on an invulnerable target as it would on a target that is able to take damage). I may be mistaken about over-healing, but enmity generated from healing is 0.5 enmity per HP gained and 1.5 for over-healing.

edit; the information on Blitzball is old and many values have been changed since then.

Ahh, the overhealing bonus might explain why it seemed so effective relative to flash on that particular encounter when I was first starting out. I should probably double-check to see whether or not it's still a good idea with my current gear.

[PetiteMalFleur]

I'm not certain but I believe flash does "false" damage on an enemy. This would explain why in T6 the slimes react to flash the same way they react to an attack and how flash is directly scaled to the PLD stats. Hopefully someone else can jump in and explain this better.

[silvach]

stuff

Flash depends on weapon damage, determination, STR and even crit rate. It cannot crit but the stat is used in calculations. It's treated like 500 potency attack, however it is not multiplied by FoF. Cure does 1:2 enmity when used below full health and 1:1 enmity when used as overheal. So if you overheal for 600 you do 600 enmity.

[Skull_Angel]

Flash depends on weapon damage, determination, STR and even crit rate. It cannot crit but the stat is used in calculations. It's treated like 500 potency attack, however it is not multiplied by FoF. Cure does 1:2 enmity when used below full health and 1:1 enmity when used as overheal. So if you overheal for 600 you do 600 enmity.

Can you post links for Flash info/testing? The last I read was that AP and weapon damage were the only modifiers and nothing else seemed to make any difference (late 2.1 findings posted in here somewhere).

edit: FoF will not increase Flash's potency, that's correct because it's a straight damage increase ability. Berserk was found to increase it's potency iirc, which is where the conclusion of AP being one of it's modifiers came from.

[dramamine]

I OT'd praetorium for the first time in ages. Right before the ultima weapon echo, I cast cure a couple of times after the MT had been spamming 3 or 4 halone combos to try and build enmity. Curing myself twice while full HP in sword oath nearly stole the hate from him. He had slightly better gear with a slightly worse weapon, so it's not like I was stealing enmity from a fresh 50 or whatever.

I'll see what sort of effect flash has if I'm ever in that situation again, but I'm almost certain it's not as powerful. I kind of wonder if Ultima's got some kind of enmity multiplier for heals or something.

[whiskeybravo]

I OT'd praetorium for the first time in ages. Right before the ultima weapon echo, I cast cure a couple of times after the MT had been spamming 3 or 4 halone combos to try and build enmity. Curing myself twice while full HP in sword oath nearly stole the hate from him. He had slightly better gear with a slightly worse weapon, so it's not like I was stealing enmity from a fresh 50 or whatever.

I'll see what sort of effect flash has if I'm ever in that situation again, but I'm almost certain it's not as powerful. I kind of wonder if Ultima's got some kind of enmity multiplier for heals or something.

That happens with the healers normally, because physical damage done is only 1, so you aren't getting squat from using an RoH combo.

I think this is specifically something with Ultima, though. Like T4 (I suppose there are other mobs as well) the soldiers that have the stoneskin don't take any damage but enmity works as normal. Not sure exactly why it doesn't work that way with Ultima.

[Mikey_R]

For the Ultima in Praetorium, he starts with 2 buffs, Vul down and det up. With Vul down you will be doing negligible damage (I was going ~2,~3,~3 on a full Halone combo, and that's the damage), Consider how overgeared most healers are, if they heal someone, that 1000 HP heal will easily override any sort of enmity the tank is trying to generate. Even a cure with Paladin, which for me heals for around 240, can strip hate away.

Of course, when you see the big light show and he loses the 2 buffs, you can go to town as you will be doing normal damage, and so you generate your normal enmity.

I think this is specifically something with Ultima, though. Like T4 (I suppose there are other mobs as well) the soldiers that have the stoneskin don't take any damage but enmity works as normal. Not sure exactly why it doesn't work that way with Ultima.

I will make an assumption that although the damage shown is zero, you still do damage, it just gets taken off of the stoneskin Hp as it were. So you are still doing the same damage, and so you generate the same enmity, as opposed to Ultima in Prae who is just a straight damage reduction.

[dramamine]

Well, a similar boss would be the sprigolem in copperbell hard. Even though your attacks might only do in the single/double digits, halone combos and shield lobs still seem like they do a lot more than cure does. And in both cases, it really seems like flash isn't very effective, but I have less experience with the copperbell hard boss than ultima.