Stop Raising Item Level and build foundation with Horizontal Progression first

[Sapphic]

Why not have players go to different dungeons to mix and match to create a set that are best for certain fights and ok for others. Instead of a generic BiS, have optimal items for different fights.

Because it's a bad idea? Can imagine it now, primal X fight, must have these certain pieces of gear that are rare drops or gtfo. Content is gated by ilvl and players require minimum ilvl to join PF parties (no I dont PF, I have a static). Now you want to add even more gear checks to content?



Imagine how many sets you would need if you like to play multiple jobs?

So basically you want it like FFXI with macro gear swaps for practically every ability, but instead for every fight?. Thanks but noway thanks. That trash can stay in FFXI and those who want that can take that option of playing FFXI.

Having more options of gear so you can go heavy crit, or skill/spell speed etc. WOuld be a welcome addition (not to mention making all secondary stats as desirable as each other). But different sets for different bosses (or abilities) newp!

[Vaer]

Great now tell us what this horizontal progression is. It just seems to be a buzz word people like to spew these days.

Simple.

Same ilvl, different stats. Can even be cosmetic things like different animations, looks, etc.

A good example already in the game are the EX primal accessories in 2.1. i90 just like the myth accessories and coil accessories, but had different secondaries.

Ramuh is horizontal progression, i100 weapon, i100 ring, different stats. So is the ST i100 gear. Except barely anyone cares about that gear so I'm not sure this would actually work anyway.

Anyways, Ramuh and ST would be horizontal progression if there was no i110.

It basically preserves content for longer as all the gear is "relevant" for longer than vertical which is just increasing stats on gear.

[Aylis]

Great now tell us what this horizontal progression is. It just seems to be a buzz word people like to spew these days.

As taken from this article at http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02...l-progression/


"Horizontal progression

Horizontal game mechanics make players think outside of the confines of linear progression as the games that employ them offer elements that actively cater to individualistic strategy building. Rather than equipping characters to face the latest content the MMO world can throw at them, horizontal mechanics point towards the development of a wide range of character attributes that will weather any challenges that lie ahead. Each ability isn't inherently better than another, but well-researched combinations might create a much more powerful effect. The key here is to expand the pool of items, abilities, and systems that are useful and interesting during the endgame."

Horizontal mechanics, normally equated with sandbox MMOs, faced a decline when WoW's phenomenal success caused an explosion of clones to wash across the genre. The vertical progression mechanics offered by Blizzard presented players with a popular lower barrier to entry and the company's competitors adopted a formulaic approach to themepark MMO creation. However, vertical progression can also create an all-too linear experience that makes progress feel compulsory and one-dimensional. The choices presented to players don't ultimately matter, and characters will be equipped with whichever items best boost their key stats."

Its a more skill/talent tree/dual spec system of character development that offers more freedom of choice on how a player wishes to build his or her character. Along side a system of gear having different stat set ups within its level bracket, its about giving the player coices on how they wish to build, not the devs telling the players what they must have.

[Saccharin]

As taken from this article at http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02...l-progression/


Horizontal progression

Horizontal game mechanics make players think outside of the confines of linear progression as the games that employ them offer elements that actively cater to individualistic strategy building. Rather than equipping characters to face the latest content the MMO world can throw at them, horizontal mechanics point towards the development of a wide range of character attributes that will weather any challenges that lie ahead. Each ability isn't inherently better than another, but well-researched combinations might create a much more powerful effect. The key here is to expand the pool of items, abilities, and systems that are useful and interesting during the endgame.

Horizontal mechanics, normally equated with sandbox MMOs, faced a decline when WoW's phenomenal success caused an explosion of clones to wash across the genre. The vertical progression mechanics offered by Blizzard presented players with a popular lower barrier to entry and the company's competitors adopted a formulaic approach to themepark MMO creation. However, vertical progression can also create an all-too linear experience that makes progress feel compulsory and one-dimensional. The choices presented to players don't ultimately matter, and characters will be equipped with whichever items best boost their key stats.

How will this fit in with FF14?

Its a more skill/talent tree/dual spec system of character development that offers more freedom of choice on how a player wishes to build his or her character.

Edit: this just sounds like ability bloat. An abiltly for every circumstance. The job system does this to an effect but does need tweaking.

[Lyrinn]

One other thing most "horizontal progression" advocates fail to consider is that in a numbers game, there will always be a best choice. Always. Period. You can have all the choices you want but one will always be mathematically proven to be superior (even if it's by a trivial amount) to the others, hence "cookie-cutter builds." The best you can hope for is to have different playstyles (e.g. crit vs. SS) reach that same maximum but there's only so far you can go with that.

[Tupsi]

Thankfully, YoshiP said he's looking into it - They got it to work in 1.23, it can work now. Just like in XI, it started out slow, just reducing cooldown timers or boosting damage or increasing duration (basically further enhancing traits) then they got crazy with adding weaponskills/occasionally attacks/drain etc. So adding some ilvl appropriate gear with better stats to "abandoned" content would be pretty nice, since let's face it, despite the route of obsoleting things after every major patch, new people will still end up going through old content because for example your relic weapon still requires content that was obsoleted even during 1.x's life span.

[odintius]

How will this fit in with FF14?

Having a creative mind might help for one and we have a system in place materia maybe people I don't know use a creative mind set and come up with some sugguestions instead of defending to the death of linear progression.

[Skander]

ST should have been released before SCOB, or at least at the same time.

YOU don't need ilvl 80 rewards from four mans. (I dont either) But those aren't the rewards intended for you when you run the content. The problem you're running into stems from being an early adopter of a game. The developers need to spread out different types of content so that there is a stable and even progression base for new and different types of players. While I'm not opposed to fine tuning the progression model (having more subtle pros and cons to effect gameplay), stating that having lower than top tier rewards for everyone in everything that's new is bad design, well... It's just wrong. If anything, I feel that our ilvls were inflated too quickly. But, even this has its purpose, in the isolation of differently tiered difficultly of content. People need to easily see what risk vs reward is available to them. It's a work in progress, not faulty progression.

[severus413]

/sigh casual players. You have to understand that new coil (including Savage mode) and CT are designed for people to do end-game. Yes they become a bit of a joke at the time but if there are no rewards then the development cost of the new content would go to waste. Its a double-edged sword.

[Tupsi]

One other thing most "horizontal progression" advocates fail to consider is that in a numbers game, there will always be a best choice. Always. Period.

And for those who don't want to "go with the best but can still compete" - that's called 'horizontal/side grade' progression. You know, go for Leviathan if you don't go for T5 weapon or make an unweathered weapon regular again? It already exists, just the stats aren't that different to keep people wanting to go back. Since ilvl is most important because for example you get 35 str on one thing but 41 due to jump from ilvl 95 to 110? What if the 95 one had additional stats that enhanced your traits and still kept you up to speed without forcing your way through to turn 6-9? You know, the "options" people speak of?