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  1. #1
    Player
    Raze's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Margaritaville
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    407
    Character
    Glass Blades
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50

    [Dev10XX] Issues regarding the effectiveness of various stats/attributes

    Hello, I would like to discuss some of the issues regarding attributes that I hope will be resolved in the next patches. (please remember I mainly play GLA so my high level experience concerns mostly melee/defense)

    I would like to start by saying that attributes are basically the original "customization" in RPGs. You want gear to get stats, stats improve performance, you can defeat stronger enemies, it's a recurring theme and a good one at that.

    I'll just touch on a few points:

    -- All stats of the same type should provide the same benefit. Because my gear's VIT is worthless when it comes to HP, I have to use my natural VIT to get it into the high numbers. This isn't a problem currently, as other stats aren't working. Once physical level is abolished this will change I realize, but it would be more sensible to either make all VIT give HP or find another way to allocate HP, such as job and rank, with +HP gear being the modifier. I don't play much mage but I'm assuming people feel this way about MP too, since it's two sides of the same coin.

    -- STR is obviously not nearly important enough. Even if base damage for attacks were to be reduced, and you could add STR though a gear build (assuming once again no phys lv), you'd still be able to do the same damage, or even more with proper optimization. I would also like to see it be more effective in blocking, since it is intended to help mitigate shield damage as well.

    -- DEX is far and away the worst. I realize that accuracy is of course a sub-stat of this, and players realize that it's far more effective to simply put points into accuracy if they want to hit something (accuracy is much better in 1.18 btw). DEX isn't just accuracy though, it's parry, it's evasion, and critical hit rate. If you could add DEX and get small bonuses to each of these categories it would improve the viability of an evasion/parry tank. Also, being able to see the changes in evasion/accuracy/etc that this (and all stats) gives would give players the feeling that they have control over their character's individual skills.

    I personally am of the opinion that a soft cap would help this game quite a bit. The diminishing returns in XI were steep but still made it fun to stack different statistics and see how you perform. Even if the soft cap were below 174(@50), you could still surpass it quite easily and have the ability to wear gear that lent itself to the role you plan on playing, instead of VIT and MND only being deciding factor for many classes.

    A hard cap, on the other hand, is optional. I don't really see the need for one until ungodly gear comes out that allows players to pump up stats into the stratosphere. Steepening the soft cap returns as stats rise into high numbers seems like the smarter idea to me.

    Also, I had a question about when there is no more physical level. Stats are linked to crafting, so what's going to happen there? I understand you could build stats through gear but the base stats that you'd start with sort of baffle me. And if you take the stats out of the equation, will they redo the effects of things such as Resolution or Sublimation? (I love me some Resolution)

    Basically, that's all I can think of for now, and I have no idea how long it would take to actually implement, but I am sure that a mathematical model could be made that works properly within a relatively short time compared to the other more complicated changes, and I feel that this is just as important as any of them, if not more. If you're gonna give out gear with +XXX stat, it's gotta work or it just looks cool.

    This isn't really a plea for dev response as much as it is a request to see what other players think. It's simple to say "stats are broken" but not as simple to say "stats are broken, and here's how I'd fix it". I'd appreciate input from everyone who cares about this topic, but a few mages with some input on INT MND PIE effects in practice would be nice ^^

    I realize that this is probably already being worked on, and this is soon to post right after 1.18, but it's the sort of thing that should be brought up sooner rather than later so that it could be implemented if deemed worthy in the next available patch.

    TL;DR: I'm a math nerd and I likes my numbers.
    (0)
    Last edited by Raze; 07-26-2011 at 09:23 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Nero's Avatar
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    Karon Mephisto
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    SE said a couple Letters ago, that they are going to change Stats along with Jobchanges, which was not meant to be in 1.18.
    More likely in 1.20.

    I dont get all this Threads, when its beeing announced allready. Do you guys dont read at all?
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    Raze's Avatar
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    Glass Blades
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    Hyperion
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    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Nero View Post
    SE said a couple Letters ago, that they are going to change Stats along with Jobchanges, which was not meant to be in 1.18.
    Yeah looking for clarification, and I never expected this to be in 1.18, also, if you can answer any specific question with an official answer, feel free to link it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nero View Post
    I dont get all this Threads
    I can tell.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Nero's Avatar
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    Karon Mephisto
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    Ragnarok
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    Marauder Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Raze View Post
    Yeah looking for clarification, and I never expected this to be in 1.18, also, if you can answer any specific question with an official answer, feel free to link it.



    I can tell.
    I would just wait. Well of course i would like to know some more specific Details, but to be honest.. i dont think we would get the answers Pre-Patch. SE said it will come, so that is what i deal with.

    So i will take it like "Surprise, Surprise".
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    Betelgeuzah's Avatar
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    Character
    Captain Lalafist
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 82
    Attributes: 1.19.

    It's not bad criticism, but a bit useless considering the work on them has been ongoing probably for months now. I don't think they can get much out of this based on the new algorithms.

    If you make a new thread when the new algorithms are introduced, it's a different matter altogether. I doubt it'll be perfect.

    If you just want info regarding the stats, I can get down with that. I think what we know so far is that the system will be simpler, and stats will have a larger effect in performance.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    Raze's Avatar
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    Glass Blades
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    Hyperion
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    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah View Post
    Attributes: 1.19.

    It's not bad criticism, but a bit useless considering the work on them has been ongoing probably for months now. I don't think they can get much out of this based on the new algorithms.

    If you make a new thread when the new algorithms are introduced, it's a different matter altogether. I doubt it'll be perfect.

    If you just want info regarding the stats, I can get down with that. I think what we know so far is that the system will be simpler, and stats will have a larger effect in performance.
    I agree 100%, and thanks for giving me a serious answer ^^ My focus wasn't really to get a dev response as much as to see what other players think about things such as caps, stat balancing if there were a "typical" system, and even the math that goes into them. I just put the dev tag on in case I got lucky and there was some sort of information.

    Basically, I like to discuss math and optimization. SE's model of what they say the stats do is actually not too bad, it's simple and allows for a lot of customization. If it worked, it would be fun to try different builds, as that's my favorite thing to do in MMOs. I just thought maybe a post could bring some like-minded people together, since stats aren't really trollbait because everyone knows they're broken. It's definitely not going to be perfect when it comes out, and I'd like to hear what type of expectations people have.

    You gotta admit it's a lot more constructive than several threads I see on the board.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    Raze's Avatar
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    Glass Blades
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    Hyperion
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    Conjurer Lv 50
    Bump of shame, I thought people would have some strong opinions on this so I'll give it a try since original post was at 3AM.
    (0)

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