PLD dealing with these rediculous speedrun parties... A little help?

[Surian]

Greetings.

First things first, i've been playing this game since 1.0,
i have 15 level 50s and i've been tanking stuff ever since the first month of Final Fantasy XI.
I'm not exactly what you would considder new to this. I have a lot of free time and thus a lot of experience playing the game.

But this speedrun stuff is getting me really frustrated.
It seems that even at ilvl 97 i cant seem to properly keep hate on large groups of monsters as a Paladin. At all.
I understand the concept of it, i make absolutely sure Shield Oath is up at all times, and i've been doing what people have been telling me (spam flash till out of MP, use Circle of Scorn when it's up) all the time, but people still shred hate off me with ease.

It feels a Paladin that isnt allowed to use it's 3-skill enmity combo is pathetic when it comes to dealing with anything in a group. Especially with Circle of Scorn having no real enmity modifiers as well.
Whenever i'm on my Black Mage, i can see Warriors throw around Overpower's and Flashes and nothing between here and Dalamut can get the monster's attention off him. Even if he's holding 10 of them at once. But that's a warrior, once i take up that same spot on Paladin, stuff just goes everywhere and nothing short of comparing their mothers to Goobbues gets them back towards you (for a second).

It's becomming immensely frustrating, up to the point where i barely even play my Paladin, or where i would even rather eat the 30 minute penalty the moment someone brings up that i should speedrun the dungeon i ended up in.
So help? anything? words of encouragements at the very least?

There's nothing working as intended with Paladin in this state. It might be fine for endgame, but by the twelve it's weak in dungeons...

[Codek]

Looking for a little bit more detail to find exactly where the loss of theat is coming from:

1. What abilities are you using the pull all the mobs initially? Do you flash while running through them? Sheild lob 1 or all?

2. When do the mobs get pulled off you? Immediately when you stop running? before? When mobs are half dead?

3. Who pulls off you? Anything but a BLM?

Stealth edit: 4. What is your weapon?

[Tam_Hawkins]

I'm doing the same as you (from what you desribed) and have no Problem while being on a lower ilvl (95-96 yeah not much lower^^). A question here, which weapon did you use? Flashs enmitity Generation depends highly on weapon dmg, if you used Zenith, Atma Animus curtana or something with a similiar weapon dmg you should have no Problem holding aggro.

Another question did a dd or the healer pull aggro from you (so was there alot of overheal? or did one of the dds use single target instead of aoe?) if ist the second case you can prevent this from seeing if one of the Mobs goes down faster then the others
and target this Monster with your Rotation after Flash. Also do you know if they use their aggro reduction skills when getting to Close to your Level (to be honest i'm not sure if that is necessary normally but if there is a risk of loosing aggro they could use this).

[Lollie]

Not a tank myself but the big one I see is good tanks hit everything on the run, tanks that do not leave stuff orange and just face agro most things. Hats off to every tank that arrives at the killing camps with with everything red, can't be easy hitting mobs behind you while running forward at sprint speeds.

[KingOfAbyss]

As Tam_Hawkins mentionned, let's say you have 8 enemies on your list, in red as you pulled them with Shield Lob, then once all gathered you spam flash, a few times only. not your total MP bar.

By the time you flash-flash-flash to no end, a MNK or DRG will focus on one target. even with flash he will be 2 in aggro, and simply moving out of an AoE might make you to lose aggro over him.

So you have to check 2 things:

1- On your enemy list window, the one in which the HP goes faster than the others. Another way to do it, you click on the party member MNK or DRG, then you click to get the same target. Then you can use Rage of halone once before starting your Rage-of-Halone combo, as Fast Blade won't generate anything, so it will give you a little game.

2- While doing this, you need to check your party window on the left besides each member there is white lines that will say who has the most aggro (A) and then 2, 3, 4 etc..

This part is difficult as it requires you to switch enemies and check their aggro lvl (BLM and WHM as they will aggro all with their abilities)

[You can adjust your HUD to make it easier to check your party and enemy list + Focus target]

But you take the time in between check - every time you switch enemy - to spam one flash.

Once you will feel comfortable, you will Fast Blade + Riot blade combo in between flashes to maintain a steady pool of MP.

and yes, using X-Ether (or any high-ones) is ok to help you in case you cannot use the Riot Blade combo. [and 99 Spine Drops Potions - Paralysis is your enemy, as some healers don't know or want to remove it from you, or simply can't because they have to make you stay alive.]

Provoke is your last friend, as this is only for one enemy that tries to escape your grasp (ok he did, but you'll get it back right away, so it's not supposed to be viewed as a mistake) then right after you provoke = rage of halone (not the combo)

It takes a bit of time, but your main part as a tank role (get all the monsters on you, and only you.) You won't dish out super DPS as PLD, but that's ok. he's meant to take the hits.

2.5 Hallowed Ground is our benediction: 10 seconds of GOD-Mode. I make a macro that tells my party (healer) so they have time to heal, or Holy a few times. For big pulls or when in pinch, it's a life-saver.

Those who want to tank and want a thrill, more easy to maintain aggro will roll a WAR. (Steel Cyclone is so fun to watch, and he has more than only one combo to do, so I like it as much)

I main PLD, and I'm trying my best everyday. Far from perfect, I strive to become better and better. I currently have animus, working on those alexandrites.

Make sure you have the best weapon (and gear) you can get: It's your aggro generator. (gear will help mitigate dmg hehe)

Thank you for being a Tank, as from what I recall everywhere, we are few? Perhaps not on Gilgamesh, as my old FC we had to fight about who's gonna Tank lol

3- Besides Healers that are making you stay alive (they still should not overheal or shoot a regen on you before your pulls, take it off it it's happening ^^), other DPS have their role as well: to check if their enemy list becomes with an orange triangle (I start switching at the yellow, with DoTs, it will turn orange) so that they help you maintain your aggro.

They can as well wait a few flashes before beginning their attacks.

There you go: Hope I've helped a bit.

It's a team's game: let's all share the burden, and the FUN! ^^

[Remn]

I usually face pull everything and never lose agro (unless, Healer and DPS getting trigger happy while I still running.)

The trick is to make sure every time you flash it hit all the mob. if your flash does not hit all the mob every time, you are most likely to lose agro on some mob.
also, you will have to rely on your DPS to kill it quick. the longer the fight goes on the higher chance you will lose your agro as you will run out of MP be fore the DPS ran out of their TP (BLM have infinity MP) .

also, I only count a group with BLM, BRD/BLM as speed run group.
any other class composition I usually do Chain pull instead of Mass pull.

[reckless76]

also, I only count a group with BLM, BRD/BLM as speed run group.
any other class composition I usually do Chain pull instead of Mass pull.

I pretty much follow the same rule, though I only go to chain pulling if I only have monks and/or dragoons for dps. The irritating part is those impatient healers that think we should be group pulling anyway and start running ahead to pull mobs. How do they not know that chain pulling with single target dps is the fastest way? So instead of maintaining my lead in aggro over the target the dps are destroying, I have to go save the healer, and watch the mob start attacking the dps.. or let the healer die.

[Surian]

Hmmm, lets see. One question at a time.

1) Currently have the Atma weapon, stat wise it's equal to zenith so not super great. But there's no real quick improvement i can get :/

2) I dont actually shield lob everything. I shield lob one thing and run through a group flashing them on the way over to my intended tanking location.

3) I usually lose monsters about halfway into the fight.

4) Jobs? Anything really, some days it's a black mage, but i can blame that on not using quelling strikes. I've seen Dragoons do it too. I do look for Regen being up from WHM, but it rarely is when i lose it.

5) The Halone Combo. I've switched off to it at times, but as soon as i focus on one, the enmity on the others is going down too fast to keep up. So i basicly have to keep AoE'ing or i lose it.

6) It's possible my flash doesnt hit everything while i run through them, but i dont know. That seems a bit too simple.

[Codek]

Hmmm, lets see. One question at a time.

1) Currently have the Atma weapon, stat wise it's equal to zenith so not super great. But there's no real quick improvement i can get :/

2) I dont actually shield lob everything. I shield lob one thing and run through a group flashing them on the way over to my intended tanking location.

3) I usually lose monsters about halfway into the fight.

4) Jobs? Anything really, some days it's a black mage, but i can blame that on not using quelling strikes. I've seen Dragoons do it too. I do look for Regen being up from WHM, but it rarely is when i lose it.

5) The Halone Combo. I've switched off to it at times, but as soon as i focus on one, the enmity on the others is going down too fast to keep up. So i basicly have to keep AoE'ing or i lose it.

6) It's possible my flash doesnt hit everything while i run through them, but i dont know. That seems a bit too simple.

Ya, it definitely sounds like it's just a few outliers in the group of mobs that are just getting missed for what ever reason.They could just be late to the gathering so they may not feel the effects from the early flash or a missed hit while tagging the groups.


I'm going to assume that the group as a whole is getting well established on threat. I'd suggest that while your spamming flash, to cycle through the mobs and get an idea of where they all stand on the threat tables. If you can identify the ones that have DD's catching up on you, then you can easily isolate the issue and dump more threat into those specific ones. If you come across a situation where literally every mob in the pull is about to fall off of you, then those DD's are getting some serious procs early in the pull (or just flat out ignoring quelling strikes). God help you if this is the case...

If that doesn't help, that I'd say to just shield lob literally every mob along the pulling path. This will cut down on the need to flash while running and allow more flash spams while they are all grouped up. The difference is not much but I find it easier to search through targets for weak links when I can spam flash for a longer duration.

[Kaven]

2) I dont actually shield lob everything. I shield lob one thing and run through a group flashing them on the way over to my intended tanking location.

If you're having problems with losing threat on a few straggling mobs then you need to revise #2) , I shield lob pretty much everything and save my MP for spamming when we've grouped up all the mobs.

Potentially those 1 or 2 flashes you've spent when running through mobs are the flashes that will determine whether you hold aggro or not. Without sounding somewhat egotistical but running and shield lobbing each mob isn't a hard skill to master and the TP pool is less important than your MP pool when you come to a standstill with so many mobs on you.

After about 4-5 abilities (split them between mobs) you'll have enough MP for another Flash but I usually split FB / Riot Blade and then Flash, rinse repeat.

People have their own way of doing things, and there's always different variables
*Flash hits all mobs
*Healer Asuna/Leeche's Paralyze
*Split your combo between mobs
*FB/Riot Blade/Flash spam

Pretty much every way will work independently to the person and the group composition you're in.