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  1. #1
    Player
    The_Last_Dragoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gresham, OR
    Posts
    744
    Character
    Renabi Rena
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Mjytresz View Post
    That....the analogy.
    When you upgrade, you're throwing the old one away for a new one.
    When you grind a new weapon, it's the same thing.
    The difference is the time involved.

    In fact, I think you'll miss the point of that too.
    When you upgraded to Atma, where did your Zenith go? Obviously not in your inventory or retainers, so we're left to assume that the Zenith is gone and the Atma took its place. Which is the equivalent to straight up getting a new weapon.
    There's actually a vendor in the game that will sell you the previous incarnations of your relic weapon, but what makes the relic weapons unique to any other upgrade is that you have to follow the line of progression. In normal players, this creates a sort of awe, and bonding to the weapon, especially since it's customizable in it's Novus form.

    Atma farming is hardly the worst thing that people have been grinding in this game. If you hate going from FATE to FATE where the atma RNG can have you pinging around anywhere from 15 min to 48 hours. The exception though is that you don't have to be on consecutively to grind the Atmas and you can take breaks to dungeon or do tasks with friends. After the Atmas you get the Zodiac Books which require you to do certain specific FATES, some of which have 4 hour cooldowns in addition to requiring a party in order to accomplish since they are easily failed (I'm looking at you "Enmity of my Enemy").

    This isn't to say that these are impossible though, and to be honest, it's really not hard to get the alternatives that can be obtained through farming Hunts now. Regardless of what you may think now, I can 100% assure you that at some point in this game's future, the Zodiac weapons will be the strongest option due to the massive amount of work it takes to upgrade them. As more and more steps are added on, it becomes less and less worthwhile for newer players or players who simply chose not to upgrade their weapon. Even one of the developers mentioned that he did not expect very many people to complete a relic weapon all the way to it's final form.
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player
    Llyren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    74
    Character
    Llyren Wolfpaw
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by velric42 View Post
    You can obtain better weapons now without the stupid ridiculous grind. Even Everquest from 1999 didn,t have a grind like this, plus I think its stupid that were grinding for ATMA items from low lvl FATES.

    Why doesn't our epic weapons drop from epic bosses?????????????????????????.
    Wouldn't that make sense? O no I need to farm lvl 4 fates,LOL LOL

    15 years later and Everquest still has a better loot system than this crap.
    I remember when they added the epic quests to Everquest. I'm pretty sure the first atma weapons showed up in a much shorter timeframe then the first, oh Mage epic for example. Heck, even faster then the first Rogue epic That was Everquest in 2000 though
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    Jican's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    187
    Character
    Jican Marquees
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Botanist Lv 90
    I can't wait for the threads to start from all the people that are totally against relic>atmas>novus come to find out in future patches that it'll turn into the best weapon in game for that class. Then they'll cry tears of blood and demand it be easier to upgrade them since it takes so long to do it now, even if you are on top of it each patch. Going to love seeing those threads.
    (3)

  4. #4
    Player
    Illya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    629
    Character
    Illyasviel Einzbern
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Jican View Post
    I can't wait for the threads to start from all the people that are totally against relic>atmas>novus come to find out in future patches that it'll turn into the best weapon in game for that class. Then they'll cry tears of blood and demand it be easier to upgrade them since it takes so long to do it now, even if you are on top of it each patch. Going to love seeing those threads.
    You're delusional if you think they won't nerf lower tiers of Atma -> Animus -> Novus when Zodiak is released. They have already nerfed Animus by adding Hunts, the 13,500 Myth which used to be soul-destroying to grind out falls from the sky now. They'll probably do some kind of nerf to Novus as well when Zodiak hits.

    I'm a bit surprised they haven't nerfed the Atma step yet but that's just random chance anyways.
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player
    RiceisNice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    3,514
    Character
    Flo Fyloord
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Illya View Post
    ...

    That's more of a indirect nerf than anything. The hunts provided as a source of mythology, which wasn't necessarily implemented to nerf the relic questline as much as it was to introduce another source of myths.

    Again, what's earning the most ire from people is not the relic questline, but specifically the atma step. I described how I feel that it's completely useless and unnessescary due to it's execution, relevance and the end result of that particular step. I mean it could be worse, the atma step could've been introduced as the only upgrade step to the relic weapon in patch 2.1 or something (with base and zeneith being in 2.0).
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    Black91CRX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    685
    Character
    Femke Fisker
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 56
    I'd rather have the Novus anyway. It shows I put effort/dedication into it. It wasn't simply a quick buy or dropped from a carry. That may not matter to most but It's rewarding in my eyes.
    (3)

  7. #7
    Player
    Crxssroad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    17
    Character
    S'yhu Tia
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    I think the question is better answered with another question. What kind of player are you?

    Depending on your answer, you'll have answered the your other question. People who see the ATMA grind and think "I'm not getting enough reward for the grind" aren't seeing the secondary value of the relic weapon. It's not just a "weapon with decent stats" it's part of Eorzea's lore and your character's progression as a citizen of Eorzea. People who prefer Coil weapons are just a different kind of player. They're more focused on the "mmo-g" part of the "mmorpg". Regardless of where relic weapons will stand at the end of FF14's life, whether they're the best or secondary to an epic boss drop, they present a different experience for the people who oversee its progression.


    Myself, I'm only going to focus on one relic weapon and will, most likely, proceed with "less tedious" means of procuring weapons for my other classes because I see both sides of the issue. It does seem an ineffective way of becoming stronger, but it's also part of the experience.
    (0)
    Last edited by Crxssroad; 08-09-2014 at 03:49 AM.

  8. #8
    Player
    echoica's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    202
    Character
    Velvet Aurora
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    You know I had really bad luck getting atma the first time around and I don't like grinding without a definite end in sight but I think it's worth it. The relic weapon is a special item in this game and I personally look at people with novus relics or coil weapons as the committed players in this game. The soldiery weapons are just lazy filler with a really short shelf life. I have all of the relics to at least zenith, whm at novus and sch I'm doing the books for animus currently. After that I'll probably grind atma for smn xP at the end of the day, we all have different play styles: choose what suits you.
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player
    Caiera's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    194
    Character
    Caiera Su'mara
    World
    Masamune
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    I look at it like this, the Atma step is an equivilent of a boss in a Dungeon
    In a dungeon you go through mobs to reach a boss, then after the boss you go through more mobs to reach next boss,etc. yes?
    Well in my way of seeing this, Atma, is the boss for the Relic progression, yes its a bit tedius at times but only the strong willed (or lucky) people will progress.
    I'm sure that the Relic upgrades will get harder and harder and offer the more committed players a challenge to sink their teeth into.
    Sure some bits will be long winded and hard going, but isn't that why we all play?
    To challenge ourselves and work through the mundane parts to get to the juicy bits and feel like, yes, i've worked my butt off to get this far and I have something to show for it
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player
    RiceisNice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    3,514
    Character
    Flo Fyloord
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    I really feel iffy about calling the relic questline, specifically the Atma aspect of it, a "challenge". The only part of it that I felt "challenged" was trying to solo the alexendrite maps and some of the FATEs (looking at you, Surprise). Everything else is just an exercise in repetition with Atma being the worse of it. There's nothing hard about bashing your head against a 1-3% droprate, just tedium.

    "They don't want everyone to have an upgraded relic weapon" has been mentioned a few times. Well gee, its not like the atma aspect even helps in that regard when there's the off chance that people have gotten all 12 within the week or even 3 days (and I've seen the latter in my guild). Even then, you still have the long process of animus books and novus alexendrites (and melds on top of that).

    Unless people really feel that having something be incredibly up to RNG to be a testament of player skill or earn you some sort of self-satisfaction...
    (2)

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