End game grind.

[Grizzlebeard]

Lately I will see people complain about grinding for tomes, and I think to myself, could be worse. Remember Dynamis? Grinding for relic weapon? Then there was Sea and Sky. Next thing we knew there was Einherjar sp? , Salvage, not to mention the climb some ppl got frustrated with just finding a pt to clear floors.

Different game entirely. Until Abyssea the game was a horizontal progression path so we didn't mind farming Dyna for years. Well, that might be a little bit of rose-tinted nostalgia but the difference is there were multiple viable upgrade paths open to players. Didn't want to farm Dyna, then you could run Nyzul, Salvage, Ein, Sea, Sky, etc.

Currently you have the latest iteration of Coil and that's pretty much it. By choosing a vertical progression for FFXIV the developers are continually invalidating their previous efforts and the players are growing heartily tired of their once a week upgrade lottery. I literally log in every few days, consider doing a roulette or PF and shrug as I know in a month or two my efforts will be invalidated. When I was younger I would have leapt in that hamster wheel but now I'm tired of the same old shit and as it increasingly appears S-E's vision for this game is a pathetically beige copy of WoW I have to question whether I even want to wait and see what kind of a pig's ear they make of ninja in 2.4, whenever that may be.

[Kiara]

Different game entirely. Until Abyssea the game was a horizontal progression path so we didn't mind farming Dyna for years. Didn't want to farm Dyna, then you could run Nyzul, Salvage, Ein, Sea, Sky, etc.

Currently you have the latest iteration of Coil and that's pretty much it. By choosing a vertical progression for FFXIV the developers are continually invalidating their previous efforts and the players are growing heartily tired of their once a week upgrade lottery. I literally log in every few days, consider doing a roulette or PF and shrug as I know in a month or two my efforts will be invalidated. When I was younger I would have leapt in that hamster wheel but now I'm tired of the same old shit and as it increasingly appears S-E's vision for this game is a pathetically beige copy of WoW.

Well said, Grizzlebeard, Xatsh. Absolutely agree.

It's fine to look at the most successful MMORPG for inspiration, but they should look at their own successes and incorporate the best of both worlds.

It doesn't have to be as extreme a Horizontal Progression as XI was, but surely Yoshi P could have *some* Horizontal Progression and more Stats that mattered (and hence could be useful on Gear Sets), and thus, NOT have to put so much undue pressure on the Development Team, invalidating all the Top End Gear, every single major patch.

Fundamentally, you can still have NEW Challenges, NEW Fights / Dungeons, Bosses, it just doesn't have to make all the current gear you work for useless every 3 - 6 months.

There's nothing worse feeling than seeing the gear you finally earned become WORTHLESS with every major patch. It's a kick in the gut for many players, and makes the Hamster Wheel / Grind VERY apparent.

Instead, he should expose more interesting Statistics and make other Stats more worthwhile. An example of Interesting Gear Sets (Horizontal Progression) (just a quick example for Paladin) *IF STATS MATTERED MORE*:

(All the same "iLevel")

* Vitality (VIT) Gear Set emphasizing HP / "Blood tanking."

* Dexterity (DEX) Gear Set emphasizing Increasing Block & Parry Rate %.

* Strength (STR) Gear Set emphasizing Amount of Block Damage Reduction & Increased Damage style of tanking.

* "+ Enmity" Gear pieces that increased Enmity Generation.

* "Enhances Circle of Scorn" Item - This piece of Armor (whichever slot) enhances Circle of Scorn, adding another [Trait / Benefit / Debuff]" etc.

* "Increases Cure Potency" (for Paladins that want to heal others to actually make "Cure" on PLD useful, and it inherently generates Enmity through Curing).

* "Enhances Rampart" - Turns Rampart to its 1.23 version (granting an AOE Shielding Effect / Defense Up for nearby Party Members).

There are plenty more interesting ideas than what I wrote.

But the idea is that all of these could be very interesting and useful, and players could spend their time challenging a variety of Dungeons / getting some of these maybe even Crafted with Rare Dungeon Materials + [Item], etc.

Instead, the game has devolved into 1 Main Stat, and a couple ancillary Secondary Stats, and all of it gets Invalidated every 3 - 6 months with each patch.

[Findel]

There's nothing worse feeling than seeing the gear you finally earned become WORTHLESS with every major patch. It's a kick in the gut for many players, and makes the Hamster Wheel / Grind VERY apparent.

This x100. I quit after 2.2 launched and only came back in 2.3 to get ready for 2.4. I have an i90 SCH, BRD and WHM and i84+ DRG and WAR. But all of that is worthless for endgame and I don't have the time or patience to grind for the next 3 months to maybe get to i100 or 105 on a single job to do coil. Not to mention, all the PUG coil groups on my server mostly want experienced players which I am currently not.

I really wished we would get at least 2-3 patches of horizontal gear progression so I have the time to build up to BiS for a SINGLE one of my jobs. If not 2 so I have play with some effing variety instead of being locked to a single job despite having 5 or 6 at 50. Almost feels like having more than a single job at 50 is utterly worthless because I can't properly gear more than 1 for coil. Everything else can currently be done with i80 and some skill.