End game grind.

[odintius]

There grind in every game you've ever played it how they mask it to were it doesn't feel so grindy is what the tricky part is take out grind mechinism completely and you'll start to see developers with suicide notes of them never being able to keep up on the news. I find the lore and story fun but I like abit more progression on characters myself this vertical stuff is starting to go stale for me at least.

[Fendred]

My issue is that most of the people I used to play with on FFXIV have permanently vacated the premises and all we have left are new players (mostly PS4 users) who have to go through the same painful learning curve at end game as I did. Only difference is they have a lot more content to move through instead of a grind. Their progression through trial and raid boss encounters is painfully slow because of the game's leveling experience not touching base on the most important UI elements needed in order to keep track of boss mechanics (using the targets list, Focus Target, and Target of Target... looking for cast bars actually takes a bit of training as well). Even though I do my best to educate new players, using these UI elements goes against basic gaming instincts and so takes a bit of time to actually master. The fatality rate on fights is thus artificially inflated to ridiculous proportions. Not a fun situation.

[Xatsh]

Gear score kills a game because it locks the devs into constant linear progression. Which honestly is a horrible model to use.

It makes it very hard to have content that last. The gear treadmill is what it is called. It is something that came with WoW and everyone else has adopted it but it is a bad design.

XI people did not mind the grind because yea it might take 3 months of work to get that BIS piece or 1=2yrs to get your relic, but that piece for its job was BIS for the next 9 years. Your hard work and time spent was rewarded for ever. Not 3-6 months.

- The argument people who never played it would be why would you want that, where that content was BIS for the life cycle of the game. That is where not having a gear score comes into play. That was the BIS piece for one of the 6 builds of your job, you had for 1 of your 18 jobs. See how that goes.

In a horizontal developed game you would have endless relevant content. Imaging how much more there would be to do if everything released since 2.0 launched at endgame was still top tier endgame. Now multiply that through 2 expansions. You have 100-300hrs a week of content (More then you can possibly do).


SE looking to WoW to get an idea on how to make casual content and UI was the right move. Copying the linear progression model is just a horrible horrible move. Gear Score is all negative and 0 positives.

It locks devs into making sure Ilvl 110 is weaker then 115. And the next patch you have to have a higher Ilvl which much be stronger then the 115. That is horrible design.

Yoshida needs to look at old XI, the one that was thriving and take a look at what is possible with horrizontal development. Yes new gear needs to replace some old gear. But each content should replace only 3-4 pieces of gear, combine that with multiple unique sets that are not strait stat boost and you will have content that will last for 1-2 yrs not 1-2 months.

Abysea and linear progression has all but turned XI into a ghost town.



I do not get devs and some people who want pure linear design.

What is better after a few years in the game.

10 raids, 60 instanced fights, 50-60 dungeons, 20 non-instance open world activities. All with relevant endgame gear

or

1 raid, 2 instanced fights, 3 dungeons, 2 open world activities. All with relevant endgame gear <= the current XIV and why so many people have an issue with it

It should not be a hard choice.

[Codek]

Gear score kills a game because it locks the devs into constant linear progression. Which honestly is a horrible model to use.

It makes it very hard to have content that last. The gear treadmill is what it is called. It is something that came with WoW and everyone else has adopted it but it is a bad design.

XI people did not mind the grind because yea it might take 3 months of work to get that BIS piece or 1=2yrs to get your relic, but that piece for its job was BIS for the next 9 years. Your hard work and time spent was rewarded for ever. Not 3-6 months.

- The argument people who never played it would be why would you want that, where that content was BIS for the life cycle of the game. That is where not having a gear score comes into play. That was the BIS piece for one of the 6 builds of your job, you had for 1 of your 18 jobs. See how that goes.

In a horizontal developed game you would have endless relevant content. Imaging how much more there would be to do if everything released since 2.0 launched at endgame was still top tier endgame. Now multiply that through 2 expansions. You have 100-300hrs a week of content (More then you can possibly do).


SE looking to WoW to get an idea on how to make casual content and UI was the right move. Copying the linear progression model is just a horrible horrible move. Gear Score is all negative and 0 positives.

It locks devs into making sure Ilvl 110 is weaker then 115. And the next patch you have to have a higher Ilvl which much be stronger then the 115. That is horrible design.

Yoshida needs to look at old XI, the one that was thriving and take a look at what is possible with horrizontal development. Yes new gear needs to replace some old gear. But each content should replace only 3-4 pieces of gear, combine that with multiple unique sets that are not strait stat boost and you will have content that will last for 1-2 yrs not 1-2 months.

Abysea and linear progression has all but turned XI into a ghost town.



I do not get devs and some people who want pure linear design.

What is better after a few years in the game.

10 raids, 60 instanced fights, 50-60 dungeons, 20 non-instance open world activities. All with relevant endgame gear

or

1 raid, 2 instanced fights, 3 dungeons, 2 open world activities. All with relevant endgame gear <= the current XIV and why so many people have an issue with it

It should not be a hard choice.

Isn't your whole point a bit moot once it's pointed out that this game does not support the ability to swap gear out during combat?

When taking that into account, you would have to be delusional to believe that developers could balance out a system that incorporates a reason to kill 60+ boss fights and drop a piece of gear that is good for your character for the next few years.


Also FFXI's job balancing was a complete mess largely due to the ability to swap gear during combat. It's great for those who play the game for insane amount of hours but it really does ruin everything for the general player base.

I'd take game balance over the monster that XI had any day.

[Elven]

I think RNG combined with content that can't be done solo disillusions players and sure you can join an FC or PUG it but there is no guarantee you're going to progress as much as you would like. The grind as I mentioned earlier is all this game has.

[Worm]

to the point im not sure if i prolong my sub :'(

Why is everyone always taking themselves hostage?

Anyway I hope you guys have luck turning this into another horizontal progression thread. Maybe you should all start putting away a little cash when the throwback MMO you've been waiting for shows up on kickstarter, because I assure you, it will need every cent.