How to Play: Frontlines PVP -- Important Breakdown of Mechanics

[Mecan]

Finished up some minor edits on my previous math. My points remain the same, but you need to read carefully to see why seconds/captures matter. I try very hard to illustration why 0.933 points per minute is not good for middle.

[Vandril]

Finished up some minor edits on my previous math. My points remain the same, but you need to read carefully to see why seconds/captures matter. I try very hard to illustration why 0.933 points per minute is not good for middle.

Well, you did a good job, because you convinced me. I was a strong proponent for middle-focus strategies until just today, after having actually taken a look at the point gains per base - I didn't know that each consecutive base literally multiplied current point gains from bases by 2, I thought it was a much smoother climb in point gain. I began to question if mid was the right way to go once I realized this. I was going to do my own math on the matter sometime soon, so it's ironic that you posted this guide, which has the math all spelled out for everyone, when you did.

I do find it odd, though, that every single victory I've experienced so far involved heavy focus on middle by my GC. I mean, I'm not at all doubting your results, but I have trouble fully convincing myself that each and every time was mere coincidence. I almost wonder if there's a less obvious effect that going middle had, such as forcing the enemy teams to put more toward middle or lose it. Not that that would be a very consistent strategy, given that it relies on how unorganized the enemies might be. Anyway, now I'm just ranting.

In short: Good Job. Nice guide!

Oh. And how do you feel about the "Middle and OPs" strategies? I've been in some groups where A and C will take and hold their respective bases, while B will take outposts until it is time for a middle spawn, which they then head to middle to handle, then immediately go back to zerging outposts in order. The trick is that we not only got middle most of the time, but we also had an average of 3-4 nodes (2-3 when we're in middle and the outposts are taken back, 4-5 when we're zerging outposts). Since OP defense teams are also generally fairly small, B also gets an average of 4 kills per OP rush between mid spawns, all the while rarely losing one of out own, giving us a net gain in points of about 15 from kills (if we assume one person on B dies every OP zerg attempt). In addition to all of that, the 20-30 we get per between-spawn OP zergs from capturing said OPs is a gain as well, because while those bases are soon taken back by their respective GCs, the points from recapture are split between our two enemies, while the points for the initial capture all go to us.

What are your thoughts on that? Viable, if not a little risky?

[Shake0615]

I do find it odd, though, that every single victory I've experienced so far involved heavy focus on middle by my GC.

I find that this is true in my own case, but I mostly chalk it up to the fact that once an established strategy comes out too many people are unwilling to abandon it. Mid-focused games are easier to organize in pugs because every Alliance has a single set goal that doesn't require inter-Alliance teamwork: lock down your post (or lock down OP and mid if you're B). In order to make a strategy like Mecan's work, it would require a lot of communication, adaptability, coordination and commitment to the plan that frankly doesn't exist in your average Frontline. Until Alliances are allowed to queue together I see don't abandoning mid to be a feasible alternative to the current strategy. Mecan proved that the math works in his/her favor, but that pesky human element is what always foils even the best mathematical models! :P

[Mecan]

Mecan proved that the math works in his/her favor, but that pesky human element is what always foils even the best mathematical models! :P

Yeah the human element is far worse than you may think. It's not that the people are just unwilling, is that they are aggressively unwilling. They will fight tooth and nail, whine, moan, and call you a balled-faced liar just by even remotely suggesting other ways to approach a match. Even the mere mention of trying something new will often get bad reactions. But here is the catch --- I know it's possible. I've seen many Grand Companies on the opposing sides do some nifty and very effective defensive tactics. So I know it's possible to achieve.

[Zagam]

I do find it odd, though, that every single victory I've experienced so far involved heavy focus on middle by my GC. I mean, I'm not at all doubting your results, but I have trouble fully convincing myself that each and every time was mere coincidence.

That's because you never leave out PvE, the guide is horribly wrong and extremely misleading. Making numbers work to prove false points. The biggest mistake losing teams make is to try and win/hold 3 locations instead of 2 with PvE. the 3OP strat worked the first few days but is easily destroyed now with much better strats. The only strat that is full proof is reacting to the other teams. If you find ones like the OP then hit the weak points right before pve and rake in the win, while the OP is scrambling to win back precious OPs that do nothing when you keep losing them.

[Mecan]

That's because you never leave out PvE, the guide is horribly wrong and extremely misleading.

I never said to leave out the PVE. I even stated that: "Middle, despite it's pitiful net worth in points, can still be very valuable toward victory but its value comes a lot later into the match than many people think." I said that right at the beginning of the guide. Did you just read the first section and throw up your hands and say "Misleading!". If you read the Beginners Tips section too on my blog, you'll clearly read that I insist people rush in at one point an kill the boss -- that will always help assure victory! All this guide is trying to suggesting is that it's a bad idea to keep a team in middle for the entire game. Camping middle doesn't benefit anyone. Please try and read. I know I have a lot to say, but I am really trying to cover basics and not give exact battle plans. I don't list any strategies at all, just facts.

[Zagam]

I never said to leave out the PVE. I even stated that: [I]"Middle, despite it's pitiful net worth in points, can still be very valuable toward victory but its value comes a lot later into the match than many people think.

Lets just stop there because its clear you cant handle any negative feedback and are trying way to hard to force your ideals on everyone.
If you really think the pve at the start is pitiful then I don't know what else to say.

The guy in the other thread hit the nail on the head,

Actually, you spam the chat nonstop with "order macros" that are obnoxious and foolish. You cause an annoyance to veteran players and confusion to newer players. You should spend less time talking and spamming these macros and more time not being outdamaged by tanks.

THAT'S why you get hated on.

Your idea of a perfect match is far from the best, every group there's always someone thinking they are the boss saying the same thing, whenever its followed is not only a loss, but a loss by a massive amount.

[Mecan]

Your idea of a perfect match is far from the best, every group there's always someone thinking they are the boss saying the same thing, whenever its followed is not only a loss, but a loss but massive amount.

That's not my experience. Generally when people actually pay attention to the macros, macros which I spent several hours planning and creating, the team wins in a huge, massive landslide victory -- and I don't mean the type that's are cake walks. When people move where I tell them to and do what I tell them to do, we win -- easily. The problem is that there are players who back-talk, which confuses players. Unproductive people shout back "Don't listen!" -- they confuse new players. Every time I play a game with absolutely no back talk it's a beautiful game with no problem. The people who get angry at macros are very unprofessional and get offended by someone trying to organize. They take it the wrong way.

I spend most of my time observing and watching the flow of battle, everyone's HP bars, marking locations, and defending points. My team hates to defend points. I get out DPSed often when I have to be the solo-guy holding a point, fighting off 2+ people while trying to organize an effort. Each time I ask for support to defend something as simple as the main OP -- I get people lashing back saying "Don't Listen!".

People like me who put effort into PVP, have lots of experience leading and doing mass-PVP --- just came back into this game to enjoy the mass-PVP. Yes, I'm going to keep trying to command via macros. This is what I've done for years and years and years in many mass-PVP games and enjoyed wonderful victories. The people who say "Don't listen!" are the true problem.

PS:

I've seen people just SIT at spawn and never play just to spite me. Just to try and make me look like some ass because we lose. They throw the match on purpose to give me a bad name. That is toxic, cruel behavior my friend.

[Zagam]

You need to lose the god complex and start nuking something.