1.18: Wipe your tears and open your eyes!

[Arcell]

Leveling multiple classes is the way of FFXIV, always has been. They've toned it down a little bit as of late making certain abilities class specific. This game is still unique and isn't for everyone. Leveling to get those cross class abilities will give you an edge over those who simply level one to 50. Jobs will take that away to a degree but you'll be given job specific abilities, all you need to accomplish your role as that job though you'll still need to put a lot of time in to do the quests and whatnot to get all the gear/abilities.

[Rimmer]

I believe long term goals and character development should come from content achievements and gear acquisition. Leveling all classes seems like a bit of a gimmick. I also think being forced to level all classes to play a particular class effectively alienates a huge portion of the population (for time constraints). Achieving r50 should feel like you're ready to tackle endgame content - not feeling overwhelmed when having to grind out 6 more classes to some arbitrary rank for one or two random abilities.

This is one of my major concerns with the game currently, It really does feel as if to do one job particularly well im going to have to level up multiple classes just to be able to do that, very overwhelming indeed.

I do hope that in the future, possibly with the implementation of the job system that this problem will be resolved, it is a rather off putting element to the game, its definately scaring me off a bit as im sure it may well be for many other players and potential customers, as well as the lack of a good & fun levelling experience.

[mysterytaru]

This is one of my major concerns with the game currently, It really does feel as if to do one job particularly well im going to have to level up multiple classes just to be able to do that, very overwhelming indeed.

I do hope that in the future, possibly with the implementation of the job system that this problem will be resolved, it is a rather off putting element to the game, its definately scaring me off a bit as im sure it may well be for many other players and potential customers, as well as the lack of a good & fun levelling experience.

Every FF game with a job/class system has been this way. They all made use of cross classing to get the most out of the game. This isn't new. If that scares people, than maybe this isn't the game for them.

[Synthesis]

I wiped tears today and got used to changes fast. Patch 1-18 was great step and I <3 the way it aims. It has its own flaws, I mentioned these already. So time to step forward too.

[Val_Rhys]

Leveling multiple classes is the way of FFXIV, always has been. They've toned it down a little bit as of late making certain abilities class specific. This game is still unique and isn't for everyone. Leveling to get those cross class abilities will give you an edge over those who simply level one to 50. Jobs will take that away to a degree but you'll be given job specific abilities, all you need to accomplish your role as that job though you'll still need to put a lot of time in to do the quests and whatnot to get all the gear/abilities.

Of course the cross-class abilities are the way of FFXIV - nobody is disputing that. A lot of people are discouraged by it though and I think that's fair for people to hold that opinion. Nobody can say whether that's the way it always has been and always will be. It's the part in italics players are concerned about.

@ mysterytaru: I played and loved the system in FFXI. Cross-classing is not the issue. It's the obscene amount of cross-classing players are concerned with. I think everyone could live with a subjob or two. But leveling all classes to cap seems absurd (which is currently the stress).

To each their own, but I think the blanket statements say "it's a part of the game, deal with it" are uncalled for and potentially untrue. So much in this game is changing, nobody can be sure until information about this is released (I think patch 1.20?). Imagine people had the same mindset towards anima teleportation, the armoury system, the leve system, etc. They were part of the game, but we didn't have to deal with it. This is left to be seen regarding cross-classing.

[Arcell]

What I mean by stating that it's a part of the game is that that is how the game was built, structured and intended to be played initially. I never said it was going to be like that forever, in fact I even mentioned how jobs are taking that away for party play. If you play a class, you're going to want to cross class. If you play a job you'll probably be okay with just the job. Keep in mind though the distinct possibility (as mentioned in the famitsu translation) of cross class jobs too. There's a reason you can level all classes on one character.

For now those who put in the extra time and effort to have those cross class abilities are better for it. They should and do have a distinct advantage.

[mysterytaru]

@ mysterytaru: I played and loved the system in FFXI. Cross-classing is not the issue. It's the obscene amount of cross-classing players are concerned with. I think everyone could live with a subjob or two. But leveling all classes to cap seems absurd (which is currently the stress).

No one is saying level everything to cap. From what I've seen, *most* of the skills people are being asked to use are within the first 30 lvls of a class. This is very much akin to subjobs. By the time I stopped playing XI (second Abyssea pack), almost everyone was expected to have at least 4 different subs for any given class. The only real difference between XI and XIV is that in this you're not limited to skills of optimal rank equaling less than half your current class.

[Reabs]

Every FF game with a job/class system has been this way. They all made use of cross classing to get the most out of the game. This isn't new. If that scares people, than maybe this isn't the game for them.

Cross classing itself isn't the issue I see. I think it's more that if you "need" to rank a class up to play the class you want then it's a problem (And saying they did it in XI doesn't change the fact that the system could be better in XIV I mean that's what were going for right a better game?).

The way I "think" it should work would be that if you want to play a tank job you level up your tank class. You can then tank but people will need to do things like wait 30 seconds/hold back on DPS. Every class you rank up after your initial tank class should ease the fights your doing. So if you rank up con suddenly you can heal your self for more enmity and DD can output more damage when they start attacking. If you rank up some other class that gives you the ability to gather a lot of hate instantly (Similar to a provoke but I can't think of a skill that does this) then your party would be able to start attacking from the beginning of the fight. etc. etc. making it easier for you to tank and/or the fight being completed faster

Instead of if you don't have 1,2 or even 3 other classes ranked up you just won't be able to be a tank.

Also I would like to say that just because something can be completed doesn't mean it's not broken (In this case I don't think it is broken though). Ex. People were able to beat pre-pre-(Is there another pre in here?)patch COP missions. Just because people were able to beat it doesn't mean it wasn't broken or isn't overpowered.

I'd say over all the update was far on the side of good but it wasn't to the point of perfection.

[zaviermhigo]

I just think the cross classing in this game is a little skewed, to be a tank takes quite a bit of cross classing but you want to be a dd mage, or healing mage, it doesn't take cross classing at all unless you really wanted both cures (everyone does)

[Val_Rhys]

@Arcell: I agree with most of what you're saying - I think it's just too early to know where we'll be in 6 months. Yoshi mentioned changes to classes (redistributing abilities), jobs that will be used primarily in parties, etc. So we'll just have to wait and see.

I don't think that's the "reason you can level all classes on one character" though. You could level them all in FFXI and the cross-classing was nowhere near this demanding. But like I said, I don't mind cross-classing, it's the degree to which we can do it now that concerns me.

No one is saying level everything to cap. From what I've seen, *most* of the skills people are being asked to use are within the first 30 lvls of a class. This is very much akin to subjobs. By the time I stopped playing XI (second Abyssea pack), almost everyone was expected to have at least 4 different subs for any given class. The only real difference between XI and XIV is that in this you're not limited to skills of optimal rank equaling less than half your current class.

This is just flatly not true. I would actually say *most* of the skills are above r30. Cure III, CON 48. Sac III, THM 48. Taunt II, PUG 40. Defender II, MRD 48. There are a couple abilities in the 30s and 40s for LNC and ARC that would be "useful" for a tank as well, but I'll leave them out because the player base hasn't deemed them necessary, yet. For now, some of those listed are perceived as more "required" than others but the point stands - it's well past r20 or r30.

Edit: @ the bold part of the quote. That is a *massive* difference. That can't be overstated. Leveling a class to 25 is a world away from 50. And it's not even the only difference. In FFXI you could only activate one subjob at a time. So in FFXI, if a subjob only had one potentially useful ability but it didn't outweigh your other subjob's utility, you didn't need to level it. in FFXIV, *every* ability that has any use at all requires you level that class.