Thread: 1.18: Wipe your tears and open your eyes!

While I don't necessarily agree with the 20-30 seconds of no action, its more a preference in tactics than outright opposition.

My preferred approach is a slow ramp up of DPS. Give the tank a few seconds to get his main enmity builds up (as an example, MRD getting their parry buff then setting off key abilities like defender and sunder). After that brief exchange the DPS classes start slow. ARC shouldn't go immediately to their multi-buffed multishot but instead use quelling strike and light shot a few times. Mages with rank 1 of their nukes. Etc.

My reasoning here is a matter of efficiency more than anything else, yes it may be 30 seconds out of a 5 minute fight but its still 30 seconds. You shave that many more seconds between the time the tank runs out of mana to self heal and the CNJ kicks into their own heals and the end of the fight.

Originally Posted by Phenidate

While I don't necessarily agree with the 20-30 seconds of no action, its more a preference in tactics than outright opposition.

My preferred approach is a slow ramp up of DPS. Give the tank a few seconds to get his main enmity builds up (as an example, MRD getting their parry buff then setting off key abilities like defender and sunder). After that brief exchange the DPS classes start slow. ARC shouldn't go immediately to their multi-buffed multishot but instead use quelling strike and light shot a few times. Mages with rank 1 of their nukes. Etc.

My reasoning here is a matter of efficiency more than anything else, yes it may be 30 seconds out of a 5 minute fight but its still 30 seconds. You shave that many more seconds between the time the tank runs out of mana to self heal and the CNJ kicks into their own heals and the end of the fight.

Again, the 30 seconds was an arbitrary number. I'm never going to be able to escape that am I? lol. It seems I've got to watch my words even more carefully.

That being said, I feel that your preference and mine stretch from the same root idea: giving the tank a hate headstart. Nevertheless, I agree with your approach - in fact I am considering adding it to the main post right under my quote for a hint of variety, given your permission of course.

Another one of these arse kissing threads. Its getting almost as bad as the i hate this game because... threads.

Originally Posted by Eugenics

Another one of these arse kissing threads. Its getting almost as bad as the i hate this game because... threads.

Arse... kissing...

Yep. Totally one of those.

Great thread and I must say I agree completely. One of my LS members was telling me that the majority of the CONs he knows switched over to DoW because they couldn't handle the MP costs and the only response I could think of was "They must be scrubby CONs then". From my point of view, things went from broken to balanced, not the other way around, and I've been having MUCH more fun with the game now that it will actually punish you for your mistakes/ignorance.

My only gripe is that controls/targeting/UI response are not up to par with the battle system so I can't play as well as I'd like to.

While I mostly agree with this thread, I do have a slight issue with blanketing the enmity/hate system as "perfect" or even "mostly ok". I'll start by saying keeping hate under this system is more than possible - it's actually relatively simple once you adjust to the new system and enmity values associated with abilities.

The problem, in my mind, is that the abilities all GLAs are using to keep hate are *not* GLA abilities. It should not be required that a GLA rank up CON and THM to 48 to get Cure/Sac III (or even Cure/Sac II, despite being relatively small investment of time). Or ranking up LNC to 30 for accomplice. Or MRD in the 40s for Defender II. PUG in the 40s for Taunt II. I made a list of all the abilities I could want as a tank and I literally could not find a class I wouldn't want 42+.

Now, we know class abilities are being adjusted to define more class specific roles but who knows what we'll end up with. Jobs apparently are being restricted from using other class abilities? Or something to that effect.

Classes should be relatively stand-alone, in my eyes. Especially since Yoshi recently said he's hoping to develop a system where 2 hours of gameplay a day for 3-4 months will get a class to rank cap. The idea of having to level 7 classes (or more, when more are released) to cap or near cap to be playing your class effectively is absurd.

Originally Posted by Val_Rhys

While I mostly agree with this thread, I do have a slight issue with blanketing the enmity/hate system as "perfect" or even "mostly ok". I'll start by saying keeping hate under this system is more than possible - it's actually relatively simple once you adjust to the new system and enmity values associated with abilities.

The problem, in my mind, is that the abilities all GLAs are using to keep hate are *not* GLA abilities. It should not be required that a GLA rank up CON and THM to 48 to get Cure/Sac III (or even Cure/Sac II, despite being relatively small investment of time). Or ranking up LNC to 30 for accomplice. Or MRD in the 40s for Defender II. PUG in the 40s for Taunt II. I made a list of all the abilities I could want as a tank and I literally could not find a class I wouldn't want 42+.

Now, we know class abilities are being adjusted to define more class specific roles but who knows what we'll end up with. Jobs apparently are being restricted from using other class abilities? Or something to that effect.

Classes should be relatively stand-alone, in my eyes. Especially since Yoshi recently said he's hoping to develop a system where 2 hours of gameplay a day for 3-4 months will get a class to rank cap. The idea of having to level 7 classes (or more, when more are released) to cap or near cap to be playing your class effectively is absurd.

Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having cross class abilities? Leveling them to cap is absurd, yes, but leveling them to 20 or so for cure II is not that bad at all. no different than leveling subjobs.

Originally Posted by Demacia

Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having cross class abilities? Leveling them to cap is absurd, yes, but leveling them to 20 or so for cure II is not that bad at all. no different than leveling subjobs.

It totally defeats the purpose of cross-class abilities, like you said. And I'm hoping for that. I actually get confused as to why people enjoy the concept of leveling, say, a Conjurer in order to play your Marauder. It's very counter-intuitive to me.

But even if they don't eliminate cross-class abilities (which I don't think they will) I think a subjob system, or a variation of it, would be better. The difference is, in FFXI you only had one subjob at a time so each main job typically only required a few subjobs to cover all your bases (and usually 1-2 were dominant).

Here, we'll all be required to level all classes to 25 (as an example). Which I'm a lot more comfortable with than currently feeling like I should level all classes to 50...

Originally Posted by Val_Rhys

It totally defeats the purpose of cross-class abilities, like you said. And I'm hoping for that. I actually get confused as to why people enjoy the concept of leveling, say, a Conjurer in order to play your Marauder. It's very counter-intuitive to me.

But even if they don't eliminate cross-class abilities (which I don't think they will) I think a subjob system, or a variation of it, would be better. The difference is, in FFXI you only had one subjob at a time so each main job typically only required a few subjobs to cover all your bases (and usually 1-2 were dominant).

Here, we'll all be required to level all classes to 25 (as an example). Which I'm a lot more comfortable with than currently feeling like I should level all classes to 50...

The setup allows people to play in a specific "primary" style, via their actual active class, while adding "flavor" or variety to it by picking and choosing skills from other classes.

It's rather like how what subjob you chose in XI affected the way you played your main, only in this case, there are far more options to choose from... at least where playing the base classes is concerned. It will apparently be a bit different when the Job system is implemented, as those will be more specialized.