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  1. #1
    Player
    NoctisUmbra's Avatar
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    1.18: Wipe your tears and open your eyes!

    Patch 1.18 came with fixes - not game-breakers. I spent a decent amount of time reading and participating in all these threads suggesting that the game is broken, and things are not working.

    I just thought I'd compile some of my contributions to the various topics in said threads:

    Enmity is not broken. It is different. The change is well done. Tanks just need to adjust and learn to effectively gain hate with this new system instead of trying to do what used to work in the old system and asserting the system is broken when that doesn't work...

    Quote Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra View Post
    Equip any of the following that you have:

    Intimidation - this one goes without saying.
    Accomplice - use on any healer that grabs hate, and make liberal use of it on the healers of your party throughout the battle to consistently reduce their hate and increase your own.
    Cure/Sacrifice II/III - Start the fight with you taking care of your own healing, using tier 2/3 heals so you grab the massive hate generated by heals. When your MP gets low the mages can take over, but by then you'll already have a headstart on hate amount.

    Make sure everyone lays off [the target] for [the beginning of the fight, briefly] allowing you to secure a good amount of hate.
    I myself tank on PGL, and will admit that at first I wasn't able to hold hate well at all. I pride myself on being a quick learner and adapting to change well. Even prior to playing the game after the patch, while just reading the notes I knew my old tanking strategies were not going to cut it. I knew with this new cumulative enmity system, my strategy was to shift from a method of holding hate, to one of accumulating hate. Once I made some changes to my routine, and swapped around some skills I was holding hate at least as well as before 1.18. Add to this how the rest of the team can now monitor their enmity levels and adjust accordingly, and hate management is much more... manageable now.

    Another popular topic of QQ is Archers - apparently they've been nerfed...

    Quote Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra View Post
    Archer has not been nerfed at all. It only incurred the loss of being able to nock 2 arrows back to back via Multishot, which was not a desirable thing to do mid-battle anyway and served more of a preparation purpose for opening with a burst on the next target while running. The stamina cost was just large for 1, let alone 2 arrows to be nocked... which meant you were waiting instead of shooting some more.

    Now with the abolition of the stamina system, Multishot can be prepped right away for a FREE double shot via Light Shot OR Foeseeker with a damage buff (did you guys honestly miss that buff?) since it costs nothing to nock an arrow.
    Add to that the ability to use Invigorate, Chameleon, Decoy, Scouring Strike, Still Precision and various other ARC staple skills that used to cost lots of stamina instantly now...

    Archer got a buff with 1.18. Anyone that argues otherwise is kidding themselves.

    EDIT: Bloodletter, considered the best DPS weaponskill in the game, is now Archer only? The utility of Archer as a DD has increased. C'mon guys, the answer lies in the details.
    Even after an edit I still see I forgot to add Trifurcate in there. Another skill that used to cost a lot of stamina, but can now be used instantly with no change to it's cooldown. It was always the preferred way to store 3 arrows mid-fight, and now it's free due to lack of stamina too.

    The thing is, 1.18 changed the game... a lot. It was a major patch. The real issue here is it seems to be "too much, too fast" for a lot of players. SE can't just slow things down and ease players into this game's new direction any more than they do. They've got a serious deadline to keep or else this game is not likely to succeed. It's not like the devs haven't told us time and time again how many things are going to change with these upcoming patches - 1.18 being just the beginning.

    There are going to be players who keep up to change and enjoy where the game is headed, and there are going to be players who fail to adapt or don't agree with where the game is headed and they will quit. It's a necessary part of change.

    Let's just not confuse an inability or unwillingness to adapt with a broken game mechanic. Broken game mechanics are broken for everyone.

    Finally,

    Quote Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra View Post
    By far my favorite part of this patch is how amazingly efficient it is in filtering out players who can adapt to a new challenge and determine the most effective way to do their job in very short amount of time from the players who do not like to escape their comfort zone because they believed they used to be so good, but now they can't play as effectively and thus believe the game must be broken.

    Even within my circle of friends and shell-mates I now have a new appreciation for a handful of them that showed exceptional skill in the dungeons these last few nights.
    We as a community must embrace this new, challenging, and incredibly fun game we have been given. We must keep our criticisms constructive, and not fall into the trap of ranting/whining about personal opinions/feelings and confusing them for game shortcomings or flaws.

    Despite all of the sincere efforts of the constructive members of our community to assist everyone in catching up, and to prove with videos, screenshots, tips & tricks, and strategies that there is very little wrong with the changes brought by patch 1.18 if anyone still feels the need to complain/rant/whine... all I can say is:

    Cry Some More.
    (125)
    Last edited by NoctisUmbra; 07-26-2011 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Edited last line in first quote to better assert the point.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra View Post
    Patch 1.18 came with fixes - not game-breakers. I spent a decent amount of time reading and participating in all these threads suggesting that the game is broken, and things are not working.

    I just thought I'd compile some of my contributions to the various topics in said threads:

    Enmity is not broken. It is different. The change is well done. Tanks just need to adjust and learn to effectively gain hate with this new system instead of trying to do what used to work in the old system and asserting the system is broken when that doesn't work...



    I myself tank on PGL, and will admit that at first I wasn't able to hold hate well at all. I pride myself on being a quick learner and adapting to change well. Even prior to playing the game after the patch, while just reading the notes I knew my old tanking strategies were not going to cut it. I knew with this new cumulative enmity system, my strategy was to shift from a method of holding hate, to one of accumulating hate. Once I made some changes to my routine, and swapped around some skills I was holding hate at least as well as before 1.18. Add to this how the rest of the team can now monitor their enmity levels and adjust accordingly, and hate management is much more... manageable now.

    Another popular topic of QQ is Archers - apparently they've been nerfed...



    Even after an edit I still see I forgot to add Trifurcate in there. Another skill that used to cost a lot of stamina, but can now be used instantly with no change to it's cooldown. It was always the preferred way to store 3 arrows mid-fight, and now it's free due to lack of stamina too.

    The thing is, 1.18 changed the game... a lot. It was a major patch. The real issue here is it seems to be "too much, too fast" for a lot of players. Se can't just slow things down and ease players into this game's new direction any more than they do. They've got a serious deadline to keep or else this game is not likely to succeed. It's not like the devs haven't told us time and time again how many things are going to change with these upcoming patches - 1.18 being just the beginning.

    There are going to be players who keep up to change and enjoy where the game is headed, and there are going to be players who fail to adapt or don't agree with where the game is headed and they will quit. It's a necessary part of change.

    Let's just not confuse an inability or unwillingness to adapt with a broken game mechanic. Broken game mechanics are broken for everyone.

    Finally,



    We as a community must embrace this new, challenging, and incredibly fun game we have been given. We must keep our criticisms constructive, and not fall into the trap of ranting/whining about personal opinions/feelings and confusing them for game shortcomings or flaws.

    If despite all of the sincere efforts of the constructive members of our community to assist everyone in catching up, and to prove with videos, screenshots, tips & tricks, and strategies that there is very little wrong with the changes brought by patch 1.18 anyone still feels the need to complain/rant/whine... all I can say is:

    Cry Some More.
    You forgot to point out bloodletter has a badass animation now too ... just saying... cause I agree with everything else LoL (I know not technically a gameplay tweak but the Yoshi style ws's are ... O.O)

    Oh and provoke now no longer instantly grabs hate from target just builds it, didn't see that directly mentioned (maybe missed it?!) Just wanted to point that out to people, no one seems to read the patch notes, even though you kinda covered that but just wanted to throw it out... otherwise great write up

    Edit: Cover neeeeeeeds some love, should add that in <3 Hehe sorry xD
    (12)
    Last edited by Misha; 07-26-2011 at 04:34 PM. Reason: Small additions :P

    ~Rationality falls quite short for those living in their own world~
    "See the world for what it is, not for what you want it to be!"

  3. #3
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    NoctisUmbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misha View Post
    You forgot to point out bloodletter has a badass animation now too ... just saying... cause I agree with everything else LoL (I know not technically a gameplay tweak but the Yoshi style ws's are ... O.O)

    Oh and provoke now no longer instantly grabs hate from target just builds it, didn't see that directly mentioned (maybe missed it?!)... otherwise great write up
    Yea I absolutely love the new animation for Bloodletter. You can feel the umph on that release... and the impact is amazing.

    As for Provoke, I didn't think it'd be necessary to get into redundant details. I'm sure everyone read the patch notes... right?
    (10)

  4. #4
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    Raim's Avatar
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    Raim Surion
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    You need to reevaluate your opinion of SE's abiity to balance hate if you think telling everyone to not attack for 30 seconds at the beginning of a fight is in any way normal.
    (9)

  5. #5
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    I completely avoid the QQ threads, but people are really complaining about Enmity? It's nearly perfect.. I know this place is full of whining baddies, but it really stretches THAT far?
    (9)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celeras View Post
    I completely avoid the QQ threads, but people are really complaining about Enmity? It's nearly perfect.. I know this place is full of whining baddies, but it really stretches THAT far?
    Yep sure does^^ Everyone just wants provoke to be auto hate/win button instead of using all their abilities and/or using any skill at all xD ... next they will be complaining about mp manageme.... errr, nvm LoL
    (8)

    ~Rationality falls quite short for those living in their own world~
    "See the world for what it is, not for what you want it to be!"

  7. #7
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    NoctisUmbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raim View Post
    You need to reevaluate your opinion of SE's abiity to balance hate if you think telling everyone to not attack for 30 seconds at the beginning of a fight is in any way normal.
    No, I do not.

    It was a viable strategy to be safe rather than sorry before this patch, and is now a more effective strategy. If 20-30 seconds of no DPS drastically increases the chance that I will not lose hate from a boss mob/NM which will take a matter of 5 minutes at least to kill, than I will definitely go with it.

    I'm sorry but, I find mindless zerging with everyone in the party constantly attacking at maximum output to "maximize DPS" to be neither enjoyable, nor exciting.

    Perhaps you need to re-evaluate how you think a strategic battle should play out?
    (27)
    Last edited by NoctisUmbra; 07-26-2011 at 04:47 PM.

  8. #8
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    I'll stick with my opinion that people don't like change, many people had to adjust their playstyle with this update on a number of fronts.

    hence all the crying on the forums, even if the changes are for the better people will fight change tooth and nail.
    (25)

  9. #9
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    viion's Avatar
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    OP do you honestly think people just go to fight a NM right away, using their old tactics, fail and think ZOMG BROKE instantly without trying to adjust, knowing its changed, and trying countless times? Its basic instinct to adjust.... This community isnt full of retards who cant tie their own shoelace.

    and the fact is what you might think works on 1 mob, might not work on another, so you could be blasting through dungeons keeping hate, good for you, why does it work? Because dungeons have been optimized the crap out of with the new enmity and stuff. While every other mob wouldnt have been. Do you think they are going to spend days testing, optimizing and tweaking a couple of nms? Probably did non at all. Take Cacutars for example, they have almost zero hate gains. No matter how hard you try.

    People complaining because they all trying different mobs that react differently and their complain should be more about how unbalanced enmity is in the greater sense. Its only balanced for new content.

    And I also agree with Raim, telling your PT to not do anything for 30+ seconds is very stupid.
    (7)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by viion View Post
    OP do you honestly think people just go to fight a NM right away, using their old tactics, fail and think ZOMG BROKE instantly without trying to adjust, knowing its changed, and trying countless times? Its basic instinct to adjust.... This community isnt full of retards who cant tie their own shoelace.

    and the fact is what you might think works on 1 mob, might not work on another, so you could be blasting through dungeons keeping hate, good for you, why does it work? Because dungeons have been optimized the crap out of with the new enmity and stuff. While every other mob wouldnt have been. Do you think they are going to spend days testing, optimizing and tweaking a couple of nms? Probably did non at all. Take Cacutars for example, they have almost zero hate gains. No matter how hard you try.

    People complaining because they all trying different mobs that react differently and their complain should be more about how unbalanced enmity is in the greater sense. Its only balanced for new content.

    And I also agree with Raim, telling your PT to not do anything for 30+ seconds is very stupid.
    Actually sad thing is the community IS full of retards to be blunt (Anti-social at that too lmao), majority ignorant and not trying to change at all. Personally it would amaze me if in fact these people CAN in fact tie even one shoe let alone both :P Everyone and their mom still has "Sticky shoes" and refuses to use a variety of different abilities, move around battlefeild more and mind their placement in fights, as well as manage their mp effectively xD And it's actually basic instinct to fear change and differences :P Luckly Reasons more powerful than instinct for some people lol

    Edit: Tank should ALWAYS be at the head of the party... while 20-30 seconds is a bit much, agreed there, people need to stop rushing ahead of the tank and give them at least time to enter battle. (A good 5-10 seconds doesn't hurt)
    (11)
    Last edited by Misha; 07-26-2011 at 04:47 PM.

    ~Rationality falls quite short for those living in their own world~
    "See the world for what it is, not for what you want it to be!"

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